From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: libnettle/libhogweed WIP Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:36:18 +0300 Message-ID: <83bmrqbyv1.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87wpamww9k.fsf@lifelogs.com> <8337daggnj.fsf@gnu.org> <87d1cdwxt6.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83tw5pg1q3.fsf@gnu.org> <87zifhulc2.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83h91og80k.fsf@gnu.org> <87pogbuhoe.fsf@lifelogs.com> <834lxndmd9.fsf@gnu.org> <87efwrug6z.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83bmrscvdb.fsf@gnu.org> <871ssos8jp.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83y3uwb995.fsf@gnu.org> <83wpafbyk6.fsf@gnu.org> <83o9vraxow.fsf@gnu.org> <83mvbbavyp.fsf@gnu.org> <83h91ic0mm.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1492720552 14592 195.159.176.226 (20 Apr 2017 20:35:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 20:35:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 20 22:35:43 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d1Inm-0003a0-RE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 22:35:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55878 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d1Ins-0001Cf-L3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 16:35:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46167) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d1Inm-0001CX-Nk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 16:35:43 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d1Ini-0006zP-Ov for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 16:35:42 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:41566) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d1Ini-0006zJ-MA; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 16:35:38 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3988 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1d1Ini-00057w-12; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 16:35:38 -0400 In-reply-to: <83h91ic0mm.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Thu, 20 Apr 2017 22:58:09 +0300) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:214160 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 22:58:09 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Gnus us full of such problems because some Gnus contributors tried to > fix problems with non-ASCII text without understanding what they are > doing and how this stuff should work Ouch, this sounds unfair, which is not what I meant. So let me elaborate a bit to explain myself. Gnus bumped into issues with non-ASCII text when the core functionality was still in diapers, and had quite a few bugs, both design bugs and implementation bugs. Gnus developers wanted to fix those bugs, but instead of taking them up with core developers and demanding that the problems be fixed in core, they worked around the problems in Gnus application code. The fact that Gnus was developed with only a very lose coupling to Emacs didn't help. Then those workarounds were kept intact long after the core issues were fixed or redesigned. The result was what you describe. IMO, none of this is relevant to the issue at hand, since we are talking about core functionality to begin with.