From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Summary and next steps for (package-initialize) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:14:47 +0300 Message-ID: <83bmn496js.fsf@gnu.org> References: < <83tw12cocz.fsf@gnu.org> <83wp5xat6i.fsf@gnu.org> <2d035e42-006b-e76e-2b3f-75f2dfd87bb7@taydin.org> <58ac4c14-3f26-4b21-806a-aa2326ce3d2b@default> <98f114b6-191e-43f9-b505-9362b9382508@default>> <<83fucg99cj.fsf@gnu.org>> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1503598575 22107 195.159.176.226 (24 Aug 2017 18:16:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:16:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: radon.neon@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 24 20:16:10 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dkwfn-0005Jq-QY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 20:16:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49830 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkwfu-000777-Kp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:16:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36120) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkwfL-00076v-Mk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:15:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkwfI-0008Fe-IU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:15:39 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:43794) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkwfI-0008FY-7x; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:15:36 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1567 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1dkwf5-0004RH-Fx; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:15:36 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Thu, 24 Aug 2017 10:44:09 -0700 (PDT)) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217779 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 10:44:09 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: radon.neon@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > I don't really understand what this argument is about. The call to > > package-initialize does nothing at all, unless you installed some > > packages with package.el. So it is still an opt-in feature, because > > the user must decide to install packages for it to do anything. > > Deciding to "install" a package is somewhat analogous to putting > a library in your `load-path'. So that's the flaw in your reasoning: these two are NOT analogous. A user who installs a package using package.el does mean to use it. That's what package.el installation does, that's what it is for. If one only wants to have the package somewhere on load-path, they shouldn't use package.el, but instead just download the files, or clone the Git repository, and then add the directory to load-path. > That doesn't mean it gets loaded. Actually, it does. > Activating a package (`package-initialize') is somewhat analogous > to loading a library. No, it isn't. > Just because a user has installed a package, it doesn't follow > that s?he wants to always and immediately initialize that package > for each Emacs session. Yes, it does mean exactly that. There are ways to disable an installed package after the installation, but the default is to make it available when Emacs starts. So you have some very different use case in mind, not the one we are talking about here.