* Inaccuracy in NEWS.28 [not found] <87fso22ryu.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> @ 2022-03-01 4:54 ` Po Lu 2022-03-01 12:26 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Po Lu @ 2022-03-01 4:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel NEWS.28 says: Note that building with Cairo means using Pango instead of libXFT for font support. Since Pango 1.44 has removed support for bitmapped fonts, this may require you to adjust your font settings. But we don't use Pango anywhere except to parse GTK input method information and the output of the GTK font dialog. Cairo text display is unrelated to Pango, and bitmapped fonts will work there as long as they are supported by FreeType. Bitmapped fonts will also continue to work with the X server-side font driver, which is available in Cairo builds. So would anyone mind me simply deleting that part of NEWS.28, since it is plain out wrong? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Inaccuracy in NEWS.28 2022-03-01 4:54 ` Inaccuracy in NEWS.28 Po Lu @ 2022-03-01 12:26 ` Eli Zaretskii 2022-03-01 12:46 ` Po Lu 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-03-01 12:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Po Lu; +Cc: emacs-devel > From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> > Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2022 12:54:01 +0800 > > NEWS.28 says: > > Note that building with Cairo means using Pango instead of libXFT for > font support. Since Pango 1.44 has removed support for bitmapped > fonts, this may require you to adjust your font settings. > > But we don't use Pango anywhere except to parse GTK input method > information and the output of the GTK font dialog. > > Cairo text display is unrelated to Pango, and bitmapped fonts will work > there as long as they are supported by FreeType. Bitmapped fonts will > also continue to work with the X server-side font driver, which is > available in Cairo builds. > > So would anyone mind me simply deleting that part of NEWS.28, since it > is plain out wrong? I'm not sure it's so plain wrong. This text came out of prolonged discussions we had back in January 2020 on emacs-devel, and it started with this report: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-01/msg00583.html Please read that discussion, and also the followups: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-01/msg00620.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-01/msg00739.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-01/msg00870.html Maybe the description we now have in NEWS.28 is inaccurate, but the problems were real. So if you think mentioning Pango there is incorrect (but please explain why, as I don't think I agree with your reasoning: AFAIK Pango is the text layout engine used by Cairo), then perhaps we should say something different there to convey the same message. And the message is still valid, AFAIK. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Inaccuracy in NEWS.28 2022-03-01 12:26 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-03-01 12:46 ` Po Lu 2022-03-01 13:14 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Po Lu @ 2022-03-01 12:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > So if you think mentioning Pango there is incorrect (but please > explain why, as I don't think I agree with your reasoning: AFAIK Pango > is the text layout engine used by Cairo) Pango is a text layout and font management library which operates on a much higher level than cairo. It performs bidirectional reordering, and delegates to HarfBuzz for text shaping, along with using FreeType for calculating glyph metrics and for opening fonts, and fontconfig to enumerate fonts. Cairo is one of the many libraries that Pango can use to display glyphs onto the glass, but is otherwise unrelated to Pango. However, judging by those discussions, there does seem to be some problems with cairo and bitmap fonts. So how about saying this instead: Building with Cairo is known to cause some problems with bitmap fonts. This may require you to adjust your font settings, or to build with Xft support instead. Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Inaccuracy in NEWS.28 2022-03-01 12:46 ` Po Lu @ 2022-03-01 13:14 ` Eli Zaretskii 2022-03-01 13:22 ` Po Lu 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-03-01 13:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Po Lu, Robert Pluim; +Cc: emacs-devel > From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2022 20:46:59 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > > > So if you think mentioning Pango there is incorrect (but please > > explain why, as I don't think I agree with your reasoning: AFAIK Pango > > is the text layout engine used by Cairo) > > Pango is a text layout and font management library which operates on a > much higher level than cairo. It performs bidirectional reordering, and > delegates to HarfBuzz for text shaping, along with using FreeType for > calculating glyph metrics and for opening fonts, and fontconfig to > enumerate fonts. > > Cairo is one of the many libraries that Pango can use to display glyphs > onto the glass, but is otherwise unrelated to Pango. Robert, do you agree? > However, judging by those discussions, there does seem to be some > problems with cairo and bitmap fonts. So how about saying this instead: > > Building with Cairo is known to cause some problems with bitmap fonts. > This may require you to adjust your font settings, or to build with > Xft support instead. Please show a complete patch, it's hard to guess which text you'd like to replace with this. Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Inaccuracy in NEWS.28 2022-03-01 13:14 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-03-01 13:22 ` Po Lu 2022-03-01 13:47 ` Robert Pluim 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Po Lu @ 2022-03-01 13:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Robert Pluim, emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > Please show a complete patch, it's hard to guess which text you'd like > to replace with this. Sure, thanks: diff --git a/etc/NEWS.28 b/etc/NEWS.28 index 58c7c44a2b..84041d79c2 100644 --- a/etc/NEWS.28 +++ b/etc/NEWS.28 @@ -43,11 +43,10 @@ recommend examining any such warnings before you decide they are false. ** The Cairo graphics library is now used by default if present. -'--with-cairo' is now the default, if the appropriate development files -are found by 'configure'. Note that building with Cairo means using -Pango instead of libXFT for font support. Since Pango 1.44 has -removed support for bitmapped fonts, this may require you to adjust -your font settings. +'--with-cairo' is now the default, if the appropriate development +files are found by 'configure'. Building with Cairo is known to cause +some problems with bitmap fonts. This may require you to adjust your +font settings, or to build with Xft support instead. Note also that 'FontBackend' settings in ".Xdefaults" or ".Xresources", or 'font-backend' frame parameter settings in your init ^ permalink raw reply related [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Inaccuracy in NEWS.28 2022-03-01 13:22 ` Po Lu @ 2022-03-01 13:47 ` Robert Pluim 2022-03-01 14:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-03-01 13:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Po Lu; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel >>>>> On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 21:22:12 +0800, Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> said: Po> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> Please show a complete patch, it's hard to guess which text you'd like >> to replace with this. Po> Sure, thanks: Po> diff --git a/etc/NEWS.28 b/etc/NEWS.28 Po> index 58c7c44a2b..84041d79c2 100644 Po> --- a/etc/NEWS.28 Po> +++ b/etc/NEWS.28 Po> @@ -43,11 +43,10 @@ recommend examining any such warnings before you decide they are Po> false. Po> ** The Cairo graphics library is now used by default if present. Po> -'--with-cairo' is now the default, if the appropriate development files Po> -are found by 'configure'. Note that building with Cairo means using Po> -Pango instead of libXFT for font support. Since Pango 1.44 has Po> -removed support for bitmapped fonts, this may require you to adjust Po> -your font settings. Po> +'--with-cairo' is now the default, if the appropriate development Po> +files are found by 'configure'. Building with Cairo is known to cause Po> +some problems with bitmap fonts. This may require you to adjust your Po> +font settings, or to build with Xft support instead. Po> Note also that 'FontBackend' settings in ".Xdefaults" or Po> ".Xresources", or 'font-backend' frame parameter settings in your init I think this is fine. Note we do call some Pango api's when using the GTK font chooser, but I suspect you could never choose a bitmapped font that way anyway. Robert -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Inaccuracy in NEWS.28 2022-03-01 13:47 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-03-01 14:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 2022-03-02 0:56 ` Po Lu 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-03-01 14:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Pluim; +Cc: luangruo, emacs-devel > From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2022 14:47:31 +0100 > > Po> ** The Cairo graphics library is now used by default if present. > Po> -'--with-cairo' is now the default, if the appropriate development files > Po> -are found by 'configure'. Note that building with Cairo means using > Po> -Pango instead of libXFT for font support. Since Pango 1.44 has > Po> -removed support for bitmapped fonts, this may require you to adjust > Po> -your font settings. > Po> +'--with-cairo' is now the default, if the appropriate development > Po> +files are found by 'configure'. Building with Cairo is known to cause > Po> +some problems with bitmap fonts. This may require you to adjust your > Po> +font settings, or to build with Xft support instead. > > Po> Note also that 'FontBackend' settings in ".Xdefaults" or > Po> ".Xresources", or 'font-backend' frame parameter settings in your init > > I think this is fine. Note we do call some Pango api's when using the > GTK font chooser, but I suspect you could never choose a bitmapped > font that way anyway. OK, so let's install this on the emacs-28 branch. Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Inaccuracy in NEWS.28 2022-03-01 14:45 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-03-02 0:56 ` Po Lu 2022-03-02 8:25 ` Robert Pluim 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Po Lu @ 2022-03-02 0:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Robert Pluim, emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2022 14:47:31 +0100 >> >> Po> ** The Cairo graphics library is now used by default if present. >> Po> -'--with-cairo' is now the default, if the appropriate development files >> Po> -are found by 'configure'. Note that building with Cairo means using >> Po> -Pango instead of libXFT for font support. Since Pango 1.44 has >> Po> -removed support for bitmapped fonts, this may require you to adjust >> Po> -your font settings. >> Po> +'--with-cairo' is now the default, if the appropriate development >> Po> +files are found by 'configure'. Building with Cairo is known to cause >> Po> +some problems with bitmap fonts. This may require you to adjust your >> Po> +font settings, or to build with Xft support instead. >> >> Po> Note also that 'FontBackend' settings in ".Xdefaults" or >> Po> ".Xresources", or 'font-backend' frame parameter settings in your init >> >> I think this is fine. Note we do call some Pango api's when using the >> GTK font chooser, but I suspect you could never choose a bitmapped >> font that way anyway. > > OK, so let's install this on the emacs-28 branch. Could Robert or you install this instead, because I don't have a convenient checkout of the emacs-28 branch lying around right now? Thanks in advance. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Inaccuracy in NEWS.28 2022-03-02 0:56 ` Po Lu @ 2022-03-02 8:25 ` Robert Pluim 2022-03-02 8:32 ` Po Lu 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-03-02 8:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Po Lu; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel >>>>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 08:56:25 +0800, Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> said: Po> Could Robert or you install this instead, because I don't have a Po> convenient checkout of the emacs-28 branch lying around right now? Done. I have worktrees lying around going back to emacs-26 since Iʼm too lazy to remove them :-) Po> Thanks in advance. np Robert -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Inaccuracy in NEWS.28 2022-03-02 8:25 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-03-02 8:32 ` Po Lu 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Po Lu @ 2022-03-02 8:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Pluim; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > Done. I have worktrees lying around going back to emacs-26 since Iʼm > too lazy to remove them :-) Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2022-03-02 8:32 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <87fso22ryu.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> 2022-03-01 4:54 ` Inaccuracy in NEWS.28 Po Lu 2022-03-01 12:26 ` Eli Zaretskii 2022-03-01 12:46 ` Po Lu 2022-03-01 13:14 ` Eli Zaretskii 2022-03-01 13:22 ` Po Lu 2022-03-01 13:47 ` Robert Pluim 2022-03-01 14:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 2022-03-02 0:56 ` Po Lu 2022-03-02 8:25 ` Robert Pluim 2022-03-02 8:32 ` Po Lu
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