From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 17:11:37 +0300 Message-ID: <83bkcpo2cm.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83lebyu5yx.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7366"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 23 16:12:38 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1quvfY-0001hA-Q3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 16:12:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quves-0004I2-1e; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 10:11:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quveq-0004HL-SH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 10:11:52 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quvep-00068u-Ua; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 10:11:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=JbEouoU/1tK9mdnrcjUguD7sKl+88lcLnk1X0WIy/BE=; b=iJ+snpyDeu8I ZGOS1osEb951akHe/zniWPdEWz0hu0Ue+fxOK1DJ3uiE1D9FN5wCYXoJQpFuKyuWVU/U+kae114QY oGh9KzLnHvK0aQQVdKwVrUJFChv72uaha9eWe2pChVTQWX9oHkhhGj4BCpe8pMlq4EtcS9Nw500ge XRg362dpmghqZfsD6Q4Hh7q6fS16zlZMk3g85qS4sWgXa1u9PZv4mAyeD8WnAuxDWf+52LmPe/vvf /ujMMmsOgqZad7LxlftJgaxqgocKym7HqmmwrOnlrNCCsIcvr+UEoWWaCD5XMSPnGOFYk3uqLSZ9Z TE/jMHnHfrFBaaHT+qnBtg==; In-Reply-To: (message from Alan Mackenzie on Mon, 23 Oct 2023 12:54:33 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311715 Archived-At: > Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 12:54:33 +0000 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie > > Even calling M-: (backtrace) causes cl-lib to get loaded. That's because we use cl-print to display the backtrace. That change was done intentionally and for good reasons. So that is not a "problem" that needs to be "fixed", from where I stand. > It seems that while emacs -Q doesn't itself load cl-lib, there is now > very little, if anything, one can do in Emacs which doesn't load this > library. I find this regrettable, but can't see there's much to be done > about it. Neither should we do anything about it (except fixing places where this is done unintentionally, if there are such places).