From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 21:10:33 +0300 Message-ID: <83a730ah5y.fsf@gnu.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="8108"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, ndame@protonmail.com To: =?utf-8?B?7KGw7ISx67mI?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 24 20:11:22 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jS2nK-00020O-8X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 20:11:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47492 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jS2nJ-0006v3-A2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:11:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34122) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jS2mm-0006OL-El for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:10:49 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35129) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jS2mm-00008L-5d; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:10:48 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2254 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jS2mk-0000L3-NL; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:10:47 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from =?utf-8?B?7KGw7ISx67mI?= on Sat, 25 Apr 2020 02:57:17 +0900) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247716 Archived-At: > From: 조성빈 > Cc: Emacs developers > Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 02:57:17 +0900 > > 2020. 4. 25. 오전 1:39, ndame 작성: >  > >> Maybe some improvements to the welcome screen. A better tutorial (which showcases advanced features, not just the "alien" part of Emacs) and/or some guides. > > > > If the cursor keys work out of the box then the tutorial should > > begin with features which can be used without learning new cursor keys, > > demonstrating something which emacs does well or better than other > > tools. > > Yeah, Emacs should not position it as an obscure editor that only gurus use. > > > Is there such a thing? Or does learning emacs mostly pay off > > for the advanced user? I can't think of a feature right know where > > emacs shines for the casual user. > > Org mode, magit, helm comes to my mind. > Programmability should also be mentioned — one should show a step-by-step tutorial that adds a new interactive function invokable by a keybinding. A tutorial is not for "selling" Emacs. It's a good idea to write such a "sales" document, but it would be a separate document. A tutorial is supposed to teach the users how to use Emacs, so it should indeed start from the basics. Whether those basics should or shouldn't begin with cursor motion is a matter of opinion, but it would be strange to see an Emacs tutorial that would begin by showing how to enter and use Org, Magit, Helm, and other similar packages. I challenge you to even write about these features without mentioning "buffer", "window", "mode line", and other basics of the Emacs UI. How can you talk about these without first saying something about what they are, what they show, how they can be used, etc.?