From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Apropos emacs-intl-fonts & https://wiki.debian.org/DebianHebrew Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 22:07:10 +0200 Message-ID: <838ux59rm9.fsf@gnu.org> References: <871u2yx799.fsf@gmail.com> <83bo219y1k.fsf@gnu.org> <878ux51fqj.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1383509263 30023 80.91.229.3 (3 Nov 2013 20:07:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2013 20:07:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: oub@mat.ucm.es, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jambunathan K Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 03 21:07:43 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vd3xX-0002IQ-38 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 21:07:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46594 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vd3xW-0005E0-KV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 15:07:42 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46172) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vd3xO-0005An-Fy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 15:07:39 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vd3xI-0006dq-Ik for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 15:07:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:38264) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vd3xI-0006bV-B4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 15:07:28 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MVP00900EECDX00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 22:07:16 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MVP009BTEK408A0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 22:07:16 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <878ux51fqj.fsf@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.166 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:164908 Archived-At: > From: Jambunathan K > Cc: oub@mat.ucm.es, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2013 00:21:00 +0530 >=20 > What I see differs from what Uwe said he wanted. See the attached > screenshots. The "other" screenshot is from LibreOffice. I cannot= read > Hebrew so I have no idea what is Hello or what is David. Then I guess you want this: | =D7=A9=D7=9C=D7=95=D7=9D | =D7=93=D7=95=D7=93 =E2=80=8F | | Hello | =E2=80=8FDavid | It doesn't really matter, the solution (one of them) was demonstrated by my previous example as well. > I am just trying to get a quick help on Bidi. I am trying to figur= e out > what markers would be needed to achieve the rendering in Emacs. I = can > use that as a baseline to form a basic understanding of Bidi. If you really want basic understanding of bidi, you will need to read the UAX#9, the annex to the Unicode standard that describes the Unicode Bidirectional Algorithm. That is what Emacs implements. But IMO, that's overkill. The node in the ELisp manual that I pointe= d to includes a cookbook that you should be able to use to get this stuff right, without understanding too much how it works internally. > Is there a Bidirectional mode (think Whitespace mode) whereby I can= get > a visual feedback on the markers used in the text? Not sure what you mean. The bidirectional control characters by default are visible (as thin spaces), and you can type "C-x =3D" on t= hem (or "C-u C-x =3D", if you want more details) to see which one is whic= h. Alternatively, you can customize glyphless-char-display-control to display these characters as boxes with the Unicode codepoint spelled out inside. So the visual feedback is immediate without any special modes. But I'm not sure how this will help you: the effect of these marks on the surrounding text is complex and cannot be predicted without a deep understanding of the reordering algorithm. You are welcome to study it, but that is not needed just to solve your immediate problems. > (I have consulted the Info node briefly. May be multiple readings w= ould > be required to form a good understanding.) The manual gives precise instructions how to use each method, just tr= y them one by one and see which one fits best.