From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 18:26:38 +0200 Message-ID: <838s9zavcx.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3739"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 15 17:28:11 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpDBK-0000re-VA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 17:28:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42152 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpDBJ-0007rf-UH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 11:28:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40030) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpD9w-00069B-QH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 11:26:44 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53608) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpD9w-0003gs-IN; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 11:26:44 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1761 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kpD9v-0008Ol-Tw; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 11:26:44 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Tue, 15 Dec 2020 06:30:20 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260876 Archived-At: > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 06:30:20 +0100 > > Of 7.3K respondents, 5K disable toolbars, which is more than two > thirds. So perhaps toolbars should default to off? I know toolbars > were all the rage in the 90s, but that's apparently not the case now. > > Opinions? If we want to appear by default more like other GUI apps out there, then we should bite the bullet and show some widget that allows to toggle on/off those parts of the UI (tool bar, menu bar, scroll bars, etc.), like they do. IOW, turning off the tool bar by default and leaving the users with "M-x tool-bar-mode" to turn it on is IMO a step back in usability which will leave us with a poorer UI.