From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Indicate better the current use of the echo area / minibuffer [was: Controlling Isearch from minibuffer] Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 19:44:00 +0300 Message-ID: <838s4i1t4f.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83y2cj171z.fsf@gnu.org> <61c85b87-98f2-1fa2-4e0a-aba40b080049@mendler.net> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21279"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: daniel@mendler.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, kevin.legouguec@gmail.com, arstoffel@gmail.com, drew.adams@oracle.com To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 13 19:09:09 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lhEpg-0005Nu-OM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 13 May 2021 19:09:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60090 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhEpf-0000ih-Mk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 13 May 2021 13:09:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43700) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhERO-0007BM-IV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 May 2021 12:44:03 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49578) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhERE-0003Or-Hs; Thu, 13 May 2021 12:43:53 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3448 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhERD-0005wK-V4; Thu, 13 May 2021 12:43:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Alan Mackenzie on Thu, 13 May 2021 15:24:23 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:269251 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 15:24:23 +0000 > From: Alan Mackenzie > Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" , > "monnier@iro.umontreal.ca" , > "kevin.legouguec@gmail.com" , > Eli Zaretskii , "arstoffel@gmail.com" , > Drew Adams > > > The echo area/minibuffer distinction comes up from time to time in > > discussions with new users. I know that I had been confused for a while > > with the Isearch behavior. The Isearch use of the echo area is > > unexpected. Users expect to enter a search string into a separate input > > form as is common in many other programs. In Emacs this input form is > > the minibuffer. > > That's a rather misleading way of portraying it. Users used to other > programs tend not to be familiar with incremental search, where point is > not in "a separate input form" but in the buffer they're searching > through. There is no "separate input form". That was true some years ago, but no longer is. Many other editors and browsers support incremental search nowadays, and at least some of them, mostly browsers, indeed expect you to type into a special input widget. > I am worried that these suggestions for using the minibuffer will get > implemented, and searching in Emacs will move from the delightfully > lightweight feature we have at the moment to something awkward and > sluggish, like most other programs' searching is. This alternative UI might indeed be added some day, but only as one option, and most probably not the default. So don't you worry.