From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2022 17:15:55 +0300 Message-ID: <838rq75jhg.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87leuca7v7.fsf@disroot.org> <87czfopmsd.fsf@gnu.org> <87h74ztshe.fsf@gmx.de> <871qw31ois.fsf@yahoo.com> <8735gj4ceo.fsf@gnu.org> <87ee038ipt.fsf@gmx.de> <87o7z61v59.fsf@gmail.com> <87bkv527p5.fsf@gmail.com> <835yld93w7.fsf@gnu.org> <877d5t0yrn.fsf@gmail.com> <83o7z47m7y.fsf@gnu.org> <8735gfs3is.fsf@localhost> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2043"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: theophilusx@gmail.com, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 08 16:39:27 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nywqE-0000OS-Py for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 08 Jun 2022 16:39:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51734 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nywqD-0000Vz-SC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 08 Jun 2022 10:39:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53624) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nywTa-0008Iw-So for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jun 2022 10:16:03 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33988) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nywTZ-00088d-W2; Wed, 08 Jun 2022 10:16:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=cGFNGQ4ixqFYIwRJmJYNW+b8i6A4ZxXNyvQcRSIDuVI=; b=KYd8kI8AxVjc zbK7bDCt5Pvb/jEurnxi6A4l10KhTgyI2WTDDxg8jCVDN8Qyq7NukzMMyP0Rdh3lkzUg6zp0X6Z1e l8ttbQSsu9ZJxWycU9JmFI/CxBK02g25+kx/kBPYMeNGppA5Ckc96oTJ0GZ1pPN52EI7LcwymRIKV Ma7HmvanK2javUozgjVTBM+zdOhJQ4OmpwzVdDt/hbOJi6eq7yTUAkrAJpj3No2koNTAbAw4nAa/9 ZilrjkdnfD1nqs8yx8sXFfIoSnj3CVquoN+RxjfGv8RgzVhS4CJQuyM5JBJyQFxi6CpXqfu6KMumI g1f4as5jRPNH3Bb3suEw3g==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4364 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nywTZ-0006nA-EN; Wed, 08 Jun 2022 10:16:01 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8735gfs3is.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Wed, 08 Jun 2022 21:12:11 +0800) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:290934 Archived-At: > From: Ihor Radchenko > Cc: Tim Cross , acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2022 21:12:11 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> - 236 org related key bindings - far less than 785 Of these, a number are > >> - actually remapping of existing bindings, so not new ones. This leaves 208. > > > > ??? How is remapping "not new"? It takes some very common Emacs > > commands and redirects them to different commands. E.g., 'open-line' > > now does something quite different. This means the user should either > > go learn what the Org commands do, or be prepared to be surprised. > > There are 3 main purposes of remappings in Org: I'm sure there are good reasons for that. My point is that such remappings effectively force the user to re-learn the commands he/she is very familiar with. So it's a non-trivial burden. > >> I said that for a read only buffer, many of the org key bindings are not > >> relevant as they relate to features which are not pertinent to a read only org > >> buffer. Any bindings relating to babel, todo management, time management, > >> agendas etc have no relevance when reading a readme.org file. > > > > Then why does Org define them in that case? > > I am not very sure what is the problem with the number of bindings. It > is not different from Emacs itself. The difference is that we had years or decades to get used to the Emacs defaults, and once Org is turned on in a buffer, one has a lot of new stuff to get used to. Unless Org is used constantly, you will forget most of those changes till the next time, so this re-learning experience will be repeated every time. It isn't a catastrophe, of course, but we should recognize this as an issue, especially if many of the bindings aren't needed.