From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:00:09 +0300 Message-ID: <837hkxgj4m.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> <62E9699C07054418AB66F9C5FCB54E5C@us.oracle.com> <87sk3oe3la.fsf@telefonica.net> <1154D96E7D2F401D849266F359E44BB9@us.oracle.com> <87ocecdzou.fsf@telefonica.net> <2256C17F740A425884AD551DE7758056@us.oracle.com> <87fwzodqqm.fsf@telefonica.net> <5138CDF30B2D4B778F948015614DA7BC@us.oracle.com> <87iq4ijtdy.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <838w5dgln1.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279188155 6366 80.91.229.12 (15 Jul 2010 10:02:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 10:02:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tom Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 15 12:02:32 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZLGy-0004cZ-36 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:02:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53303 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZLGw-00057t-Tt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 06:02:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=55722 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZLGn-00055M-Dl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 06:02:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZLGm-0006b8-32 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 06:02:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:60823) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZLGl-0006as-OC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 06:02:19 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L5L00300FQ3AH00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:02:06 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.120.144]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L5L003Z6FVHAD00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:02:06 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127342 Archived-At: > From: Tom > Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:27:59 +0000 (UTC) > > The logic goes: > > 1. we don't have a killer application out of the box with zero > configuration like refactoring support, etc. It needs lots of work. > > 2. we have a UI which is very different from the ones in popular > systems (e.g. keybindings) > > 3. since we don't have a killer feature which is instantly appealing > to newcomers and we have a different ui, they usually say, in my > experience: Why should I bother with it? Why should I learn new > keys for copy/paste if there is not killer feature? > > 4. by making the UI more similar (by default, without any necessary > configuration) to other popular systems, we lower the barrier of entry. > Casual users can try emacs with no upfront effort and some of them > will be interested to learn more about it if they like what they see > and experience. First impression matters. > > 5. If more casual users try emacs the more chance there is they become > regular user and maybe even contributors. > > 6. By taking the conservative estimate that 1 percent of new users > become emacs hackers who contribute something worthwhile (code, > documentation, testing, etc.) then if we can attract 1000 more new > users we can get 10 good contributors. If we can attract 10000, > we get a 100. > > > That's why I think making emacs more appealing to new users is important. > More users means more hackers (that 1 percent, that is) and more hackers > means more development resources which leads to a better emacs. Well, Notepad has all the familiar UI you are talking about, but somehow it doesn't attract "more hackers". I guess your logic lacks something important.