From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another others for maintainer? Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:32:40 +0300 Message-ID: <837fmeudev.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87bnbuncw4.fsf@petton.fr> <87bnbtmsli.fsf@petton.fr> <87a8rd7bu1.fsf@gmail.com> <837fmhfouu.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445527984 7596 80.91.229.3 (22 Oct 2015 15:33:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:33:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: John Wiegley Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 22 17:32:56 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpHrD-00076G-Rb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 17:32:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60723 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpHrD-0005jh-Ce for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:32:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43913) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpHr9-0005jU-SR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:32:45 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpHr7-0008Nm-0V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:32:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout29.012.net.il ([80.179.55.185]:39009) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpHr6-0008Ly-IZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:32:40 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout29.012.net.il by mtaout29.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NWM00M00O54YE00@mtaout29.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:32:00 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.94.185.246]) by mtaout29.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NWM00II4OHC9R60@mtaout29.012.net.il>; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:32:00 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.185 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:192403 Archived-At: > From: "John Wiegley" > Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:44:00 -0700 > Cc: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > My ideal scenario is this: > > - I'm willing to act as "project manager" in the non-technical sense. That > is, charting the course, working with contributors, planning releases, > keeping an eye on matters of concern, liaising with the FSF. This is a > pleasant role for me, and doesn't require daily output. > > - Eli -- without whom even *imagining* this would be impossible Thanks, but you make this sound like if tomorrow I'm overrun by a bus, Emacs will die, or at least stagnate. Which of course is not true. There are quite a few people here without whom Emacs development would not have been what it is, let alone what it (hopefully) will be. > -- would > become our primary technical lead, the person I rely on most to keep the > ship aright and stay on top of bug submissions and patches. If you don't have enough time to actively engage in technical issues, like discussing development and design/implementation decisions, reviewing patches, fixing bugs, etc. -- then the above scenario is not viable. There's no chance in the world I alone will be able to deal with that workload: I have neither the time nor knowledge (nor talent, to be honest) to do that. So we will need at least some of the team you describe here: > Eli and I, in turn, would start assigning responsibilities and delegating to > others, until we have a distributed team of hopefully 10-20 people, each with > their own time, energy, experiences and expertise. We need this as a _prerequisite_ for announcing that the new maintenance team is in place and has assumed its responsibilities. Without them, this simply won't work; we shouldn't even try. 10-20 people is probably an ambitious goal, but at least around 5 is IMO the necessary minimum. Those individuals will have to agree to be part of the team, ideally also tell which areas they would like (or consider themselves able) to be responsible for, so that many (most?) issues will have a clear addressee in the team. Lack of hands is crucial here. If we don't collect enough hands to routinely and efficiently perform the day-to-day duties -- reviewing and approving patches, analyzing bugs, writing documentation -- we will never be able to sustain the intensity and pace of development we'd like to have. P.S. I think many people don't realize how many simple, mundane tasks are part of what we call "Emacs maintenance". Stuff like fixing spelling errors, committing auto-generated files, fixing unsafe or sub-optimal code revealed by compiler warnings, closing bugs that were resolved but left open, merging bug reports for the same bug, fixing typos in generated log messages, managing our mailing lists and the Web site -- all this is part of the job. That we currently have a few kind people like Glenn, Paul, Juanma, and others silently doing this behind the scenes (look at "git log" to see what I mean) is sheer luck. People who want to help could start with these small but important tasks. With time and experience, they will gain confidence in their talents and abilities, and -- no less important -- upgrade their status within the community, and that will help them decide which larger tasks they could take upon themselves.