From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Entering emojis Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2021 09:09:26 +0300 Message-ID: <837ddws6p5.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87cznths5j.fsf@gnus.org> <87ilxi7531.fsf@gnus.org> <875yth7bjr.fsf@gnus.org> <8335oltgyd.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36185"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 29 08:43:16 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mgLbf-0009Hl-PO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 08:43:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38558 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mgLbe-0005Or-G8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 02:43:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46356) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mgL5D-0007oH-LC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 02:09:43 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54252) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mgL5D-0002TR-8j; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 02:09:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=d8NakyqMYCheugvR8oBFP093MgCf3nftIwoZ7v6O8+g=; b=BHVUV3aBdQzG lwVl1PciJcz55QRgsp1D+EBo1f4Uc2zMZQdIvMxhlzj4ee6O/Xk6Kyjo5v/Is6Nv6H0CCV6d7tvQG 8KDuLDCf0iV7cfiKrKF8xBvOkH9mSml1pcH73lmeHi6gxCSiJ6Uw5K85MlNnHTUwoHWq+MDuJLMqp 8YaNkQ++92IgiHt8xuyElu7OWBzbNTD9r71vF6adlX3ENEbdeZuJ4f9dWuY/3ILVfOSzyGcTZGT/o JFgsiYjq/fjzSzefy+sD5gy62hzdAbhdyNXEK7TwCz4DDmnyE3QBG2nV6LUVV+MnlKItSynXVTNzS InfLMI82PK40r2IUMaLngg==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3604 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mgL5C-0007lS-PX; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 02:09:43 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Thu, 28 Oct 2021 16:37:55 -0700) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:278169 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2021 16:37:55 -0700 > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > But in the specific case of emojis, I would have expected that the > emojis just get deleted in one go, as that is what happens in other > software where I use emojis. (Mostly chat programs on my phone.) > > Would it be possible and make sense to handle emojis differently from > other grapheme clusters in that regard? The desire not to retype them > from scratch might be less of a concern now that we have `emoji-insert'. First, we don't yet have emoji-insert, it's only on master (which I think is a mistake, given the significant improvements in this are we will have in Emacs 28; but I digress). And second, the current behavior could be quite useful in the Emoji case as well. For example, consider the case where you typed the male version and you want to change it to the female version instead. Or when you copy-paste the Emoji from some other text, then want to change it in small ways. The behavior you suggest could be a user option, by default off, and not specific to Emoji. Changing the behavior unconditionally, or even making that the default of that option, makes no sense to me, since the current behavior is very old, and I never heard any complaints about it. making it specific to Emoji is possible, but sub-optimal, because it would require the user to remember what kind of composition sequence he/she is typing; and many users would have a difficulty to know whether a given composed sequence is considered Emoji or not, given that more and more non-Emoji characters can have "Emoji presentation form" requested by appending VS-16. And I submit that, as in many other situations in Emacs development, we are jumping too fast to conclusions. Here's a new feature, fresh out of the oven, not even 100% complete yet, and we bump into behavior we never noticed before, and immediately want to change it because it surprises us. Why not hold our horses until we have _some_ experience with the new feature, and then consider this and other aspects with some perspective in mind? What's the rush to make changes in unrelated functionalities just because we were surprised by a TIL-like phenomenon, with hardly a few keystrokes of experience under our belts?