From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Enabling native compilation by default when libgccjit is present Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 10:06:10 +0200 Message-ID: <837dccubnx.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87czmdqpv9.fsf@web.de> <83h7bo7rvz.fsf@gnu.org> <87bl1tjage.fsf@web.de> <877dchj9cu.fsf@web.de> <83ee6ozfb0.fsf@gnu.org> <87tufjqzo1.fsf@igel.home> <83r1anw7t5.fsf@gnu.org> <8735n2pqms.fsf@web.de> <87y24ul558.fsf@web.de> <87sfv1l8ey.fsf@web.de> <87o85pl7e8.fsf@web.de> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35854"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 10 10:05:03 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mvbpu-00097D-MM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 10:05:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59914 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvbpt-0000Vn-8X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 04:05:01 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35598) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvavB-0006cu-Ds for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 03:06:27 -0500 Original-Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=44948 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvavA-00018Z-S7; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 03:06:24 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=3FrsXWVYvmWOJrGZdYHidGm4PzMcHYZKmobkWKJg8AQ=; b=QMtq111H9z/j EYDySwvwlKBrKJXoPj62pCdLTrPZJI7F4elzinWowiFczGLV3nemOlWmdtuBXnBsJCy0f1DMKJSYX URuf+Q9nQVOq2w+9xO0BD6wzythCpbpwENh6Cog6xLPaj16PwfPHy3lZH4vlYHqz+oqDeSHtMq7Si 3kphIceiYSXefr8kNrQcGbDI+0ZOcTAtw9l0N1dwK+0atmpwCCUfScZCiLyMtxgv/vthynYjCVRoP XkUZOOho2sAwMqcjj5sF1gWEzM2PthGUiD62ZqgVc0I+7zww3iiFLb4gHuZKlx5mu56NxgQ4zNJbq eAYn5YL3bFDhQ0Fu86aMDw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4854 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvavA-00087Y-DT; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 03:06:24 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87o85pl7e8.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Thu, 09 Dec 2021 23:50:55 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:281573 Archived-At: > From: Michael Heerdegen > Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 23:50:55 +0100 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Michael Heerdegen writes: > > > Sure, it miscompiles - but it also fails, and a broken eln is never > > loaded. Only because of that it "works". > > What I really wanted to do is to point to the fact that the init file is > a special case. Will all users be able to fix the warnings so that they > don't get a broken .eln init file? Will all of them understand what the > problem is - when loading the source works without problems? Compiled > stuff behaving differently than interpreted code is something that some > people don't expect and understand. These questions are supposed to be answered by collecting user experience and bug reports for Emacs 28. We don't have that yet, so we don't know the answers yet. We still don't know enough about the various consequences of this new feature in all the different use patterns out there. We do know that if your init file is called ".emacs" or "init.el", and there's no corresponding .elc file, Emacs will NOT natively-compile the init file. So at least users who don't byte-compile their init files are okay (I'm squarely in that group). > Only programmers would be able to use an Emacs init file. See above: this is at least inaccurate, if not incorrect. > I think eln compiling the user's own files should be opt-in. We will decide on that after we see how the community reacts to the feature. For now, I didn't see too many complaints about this on relevant forums, and a few questions regarding the warnings, when answered, were met with understanding and "problem solved" conclusions. But the jury is still out on these issues, from my POV, so we will need to revisit these issues later.