From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding use-package to core Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 17:46:08 +0200 Message-ID: <837czr7xrz.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87fsemjs7v.fsf@yahoo.com> <87wn7skqne.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> <83h6yw9hhf.fsf@gnu.org> <87h6ywgfii.fsf@posteo.net> <83edtza04u.fsf@gnu.org> <875yfb5rg5.fsf@posteo.net> <834juv9xpm.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13982"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: philipk@posteo.net, spwhitton@spwhitton.name, luangruo@yahoo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, xenodasein@tutanota.de To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 19 16:46:37 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1owQ39-0003No-UD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 19 Nov 2022 16:46:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1owQ2h-0001EY-CN; Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:46:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1owQ2g-0001EL-1g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:46:06 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1owQ2f-0004bd-1L; Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:46:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=TJ9yn3BevCjAe/0wz9FjRCpX/pQqjjwTBR8DQiUzlvk=; b=Iswc9mPWtqDS vBgS3zEqPUTMxKHbE9eOdE2Etv+Uq7VlOSEGytYo1HgQDj0CG+DKcmVZtdy3ugHwXdiY6Sx7vVjcF gmWfQ+24Mb9fueRm9P0ZC7+s2sXDGpkalzcDLvdw/8voMC8KadMxfu5e+j0Z4RY5LbR8jXkUaaSGV 3uY2semiOvpueV13kTQ2JWj6ik7MVIboxMj4N0vVNvJBr7YVP58JivC15nIucmWKfFEE7/csBLLJE yAoMXAzXPcCAorphLpgSD/+UqgpkJOgf/SbJdZVrS6rsHGw6QJF8G+YMz74t/+jDq/1PntpfvhxYy Y0WgFExxc9JKqygOQ7sYug==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1owQ2e-0004bv-BO; Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:46:04 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:28:56 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:300187 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Philip Kaludercic , spwhitton@spwhitton.name, > luangruo@yahoo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, xenodasein@tutanota.de > Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:28:56 -0500 > > > packages in a release (which should include the solution for how to > > upgrade such packages after the released Emacs is installed on the > > user's machine), > > FWIW, this has been a solved problem already in Emacs-24: package.el has > always been able to handle the presence of both system-wide packages and > user-installed packages and to pick the most recent version. It might be _almost_ solved, but I'm not sure it is 100% solved. We need a clear description of: . how are such packages installed when a release tarball is built and installed ("how" here means where and with which artifacts) . how will this work in a built but uninstalled source tree . how are such packages installed from a distro . how can they be upgraded from ELPA and downgraded back to the version that came with the tarball I asked this question in the Dec 2020 discussion, and you responded here: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-12/msg00923.html The response triggered a few followup questions, and I don't think we have satisfactory, let alone final, answers for all of those questions. I'm not saying this part of the issue is rocket science, but it does have to be figured out.