From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as word processor Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2013 17:24:29 +0200 Message-ID: <8361rjcf9u.fsf@gnu.org> References: <5288A59E.7030109@dancol.org> <87vbzqfgd6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87mwl04w3k.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <87iovo4caz.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <877gc14vzs.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <878uwhxnqe.fsf@informatimago.com> <83txf4cw9z.fsf@gnu.org> <528F77B8.9090602@lanl.gov> <83ob5ccoct.fsf@gnu.org> <83iovkcf1g.fsf@gnu.org> <83a9gvcyq3.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1385220275 9881 80.91.229.3 (23 Nov 2013 15:24:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2013 15:24:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: John Yates Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 23 16:24:40 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VkF4Y-0002rM-OJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2013 16:24:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44076 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VkF4Y-0006In-Bb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:24:38 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52057) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VkF4R-0006Ib-EB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:24:36 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VkF4J-000693-KS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:24:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:49234) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VkF4J-000683-Cw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:24:23 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MWQ004002Q01D00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2013 17:24:21 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MWQ004P22SL0T10@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sat, 23 Nov 2013 17:24:21 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.166 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:165623 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:13:38 -0500 > From: John Yates > Cc: Emacs developers > > > > Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:47:05 -0500, John Yates > wrote: > > > > > > I want to be able to say "This is a chapter title" or "This is a step > in a > > > recipe" or - most commonly - "This is a top level paragraph with no > > > particular distinctive property". After that I want my tool have a > basic > > > sense of how each item ought to be formatted. More importantly I want > it > > > to allow me to say, all elements of a particular type that I may have > > > created heretofore as well as any I may create in the future should be > > > formatted in some new manner. I think of this as a declarative UI. > > > > > > If I understond your description correctly your model is one in which > (as > > > an inveterate emacs user :-) I would compose a command to say "find all > > > items matching the following pattern and change each's formatting > property > > > P from X to Y". I think of that as an imperative UI. My biggest > stumbling > > > block is that I do not understand how it allows me to express my > intentions > > > relative to content yet to be entered. > > > > We need to have both. For the former, we have face customization, > > which does exactly what you describe. > > > Are you saying that I can customize an emacs face to specify > inter-paragraph space? a bullet glyph or numbering style? first line and > subsequent line indentation? That is definitely not the case with my > emacs, current as of Nov 8th. That's unfair: you said nothing about those features in the text to which I responded. You just talked about the difference between imperative and declarative approaches to specifying attributes. Now you've changed the subject, so I no longer understand what are we discussing. If you are saying that these features don't exist in Emacs, I agree: they don't. But I don't see the significance of that fact, since everybody agrees that Emacs is not a WYSIWYG word processor at this time. If you are saying that these features could never be part of a face spec, then I don't think I agree; please explain why you think so.