From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 17:36:03 +0300 Message-ID: <8361fl5rjg.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87d2ahm3nw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <871tqneyvl.fsf@netris.org> <87zjd9swfj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87oatnqpml.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <874mvdrj45.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20141009044917.GA19957@fencepost.gnu.org> <83lhopisfr.fsf@gnu.org> <87ppe1pldu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <8761ft5wpo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83k349b0vj.fsf@gnu.org> <83bnph96kh.fsf@gnu.org> <87ppdwo7ll.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <543BE7CB.9040801@cs.ucla.edu> <87egubopls.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87bnpfyjaf.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87a94zoo57.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83h9z77p7d.fsf@gnu.org> <8761fnnne9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <543D8186.9000101@cs.ucla.edu> <87mw8ym3no.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <543E0BFD.4020700@cs.ucla.edu> <878ukhn6n3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83fvep665h.fsf@gnu.org> <877g01murc.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83bnpd5x90.fsf@gnu.org> <87vbnllb71.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1413383786 18855 80.91.229.3 (15 Oct 2014 14:36:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:36:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 15 16:36:19 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XePgY-00067e-My for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 16:36:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45066 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XePgY-0000j6-AX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:36:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60383) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XePgR-0000e6-3H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:36:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XePgL-0008JV-9S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:36:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout27.012.net.il ([80.179.55.183]:58301) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XePgK-0008J0-TL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:36:05 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout27.012.net.il by mtaout27.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NDH00I00PGO8500@mtaout27.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 17:30:52 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout27.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NDH00CXPPNGZX30@mtaout27.012.net.il>; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 17:30:52 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <87vbnllb71.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.183 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:175411 Archived-At: > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" > Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 22:22:26 +0900 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > > > utf-8-emacs is a private encoding used and understood by Emacs > > > > alone, so encoding Emacs files in that would make them unusable > > > > (unsearchable, unreadable, etc.) with anything but Emacs. > > > > > > And who in the world would care? > > > > Those who use Grep etc. outside of Emacs. > > Well, no, because only those with a very special and very obsolete > environment would be able to search for those few characters using > grep, if they don't have Emacs. The rest of the characters are in > Unicode, so can be searched as usual using the UTF-8 representation. You assume that Grep and the terminal will not choke on the non-Unicode characters. There's no basis for such an assumption. > > > My argument is that Emacs is alone in choosing this particular > > > "reasonable way to support encodings" > > > > What other programs you are aware of that cover such a large set of > > scripts and languages no matter what is the user locale? > > With Unicode support, *all of them*. Treating UTF-8 as a byte stream doesn't constitute "support". > > My point is that those other projects need to learn from Emacs first. > > Could be you're right, but sadly, I doubt anyone is going to bother. Too bad.