From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: More metaproblem Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 08:25:14 +0200 Message-ID: <8361ds53ud.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20141203142859.24393.98673@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <20141203192721.GE12748@thyrsus.com> <547F6774.50700@cs.ucla.edu> <838uio5vjw.fsf@gnu.org> <20141203211447.GB15111@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417674333 11962 80.91.229.3 (4 Dec 2014 06:25:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 06:25:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 04 07:25:26 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XwPqw-0005tf-4e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 07:25:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44639 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwPqv-0006xE-G9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 01:25:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38999) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwPqe-0006v4-6t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 01:25:12 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwPqZ-0005wc-Jq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 01:25:08 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout26.012.net.il ([80.179.55.182]:43303) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwPqZ-0005tW-7N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 01:25:03 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout26.012.net.il by mtaout26.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NG100B00O7ZY300@mtaout26.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 08:23:51 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout26.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NG100C2UOFRYM00@mtaout26.012.net.il>; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 08:23:51 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <20141203211447.GB15111@thyrsus.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.182 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178799 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 16:14:47 -0500 > From: "Eric S. Raymond" > Cc: Paul Eggert , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > > For commit > > > e820f16c06a5a6be4bc87910b349c7c3c6eca0f4, for example, your ChangeLog > > > entry was "* files.el (file-tree-walk): Lisp translation of ANSI > > > ftw(3).", and that one-liner should have been the git commit message, too. > > > > Yes, but please lose the "*" part, it just wastes precious real estate. > > > > > In vc, abolish the dir-status method. > > > > > > * vc.el, all backends: API simplification: Abolish dir-status. > > > It's replaced by dir-status-files. > > > > Likewise here: no need to keep the asterisks. > > I realize you both mean well, but have you actually thought about the > effect of adding more edge cases to commenting rules that are already > rather fussy? (And undocumented.) If you don't want to do the above, feel free to ignore. I promise I won't be mad at you, and won't revoke your write access. It was just a suggestion (that I personally follow, Paul does with his). Many people here don't follow them (though many do), so it's not a disaster if you don't, either. > The overhead from all these picky requirements adds to big ones like > "you must execute a copyright assignment" in ways I don't think people > here understand. What looks reasonable and easy to you, from long > practice, is a wilderness of brambles to outsiders. > > Once I've finished cleaning up and extending VC mode I'm going to > clean out the dusty attic in /etc (RMS and I discussed this and > basically agreed on a plan about 11 month ago). If you don't see how > that's relevant, stop and think until you get it. The main requirement is to make a point of including ChangeLog-like entries in the commit log message, all the rest is wishlist. I'm allowed to have that, am I? > For Emacs to attract new developers, its code and the culture need to > be discoverable. As part of this, practice rules need to be *clear*, > *documented*, and *minimal*. Right now they fail all three tests. Feel free to contribute the missing documentation, and thanks in advance.