From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: IDE Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 17:37:43 +0300 Message-ID: <83612essaw.fsf@gnu.org> References: <5610207A.2000300@harpegolden.net> <83fv1r3gzp.fsf@gnu.org> <83bncf3f9k.fsf@gnu.org> <5610E0BC.8090902@online.de> <83si5r106e.fsf@gnu.org> <831td9z18h.fsf@gnu.org> <5612E996.7090700@yandex.ru> <83bnc7tavr.fsf@gnu.org> <5618C92A.3040207@yandex.ru> <83a8rrt9ag.fsf@gnu.org> <5618D376.1080700@yandex.ru> <831td3t62e.fsf@gnu.org> <5618E51D.4070800@yandex.ru> <83twpzrp05.fsf@gnu.org> <5618ED93.8000001@yandex.ru> <83lhbbrnn7.fsf@gnu.org> <56191EBE.5050404@yandex.ru> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1444487891 14601 80.91.229.3 (10 Oct 2015 14:38:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 14:38:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: adatgyujto@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 10 16:37:53 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZkvHP-0000sI-4s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 16:37:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45110 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZkvHO-0000Uk-1E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:37:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50406) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZkvHK-0000Ub-FL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:37:43 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZkvHH-0004Qu-6o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:37:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout26.012.net.il ([80.179.55.182]:45802) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZkvHG-0004QW-Ur for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:37:39 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout26.012.net.il by mtaout26.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NW000J00E0VYN00@mtaout26.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 17:40:39 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.94.185.246]) by mtaout26.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NW000D0VE3RKX80@mtaout26.012.net.il>; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 17:40:39 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <56191EBE.5050404@yandex.ru> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.182 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:191146 Archived-At: > Cc: adatgyujto@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Dmitry Gutov > Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 17:20:46 +0300 > > On 10/10/2015 02:03 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> The above more focused and, as such, more useful. "Comprehensive IDE > >> features" is not as useful. > > > > But it narrows the field too much, IMO. > > I wonder. > > From what I've seen, Emacs facilities that try to do too much, end up > over-specializing. That limits the number of users and, consequently, > volunteers that would want to support it further. In my view, CEDET is > an example of that. I didn't suggest to use CEDET as the starting point for this purpose. I suggested to look at the popular IDEs out there, and use their features as such a starting point. Once again, we have prior art at our fingertips. I believe the features provided by the existing IDEs are a good approximation for what people will generally expect from an IDE. I think making a list of the features we would like to see in the Emacs IDE, based on the existing prior art, would be a good step forward. But I repeat myself. If you still don't agree, let's agree to disagree on this. > Another example is ECB that controls how all windows are displayed, and > trying to do that in the fashion that many IDE users are accustomed to. Don't we lack features to support that? Emacs generally doesn't let you "dedicate" windows quite like IDEs do, even though we try.