From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2022 09:18:29 +0200 Message-ID: <835yfa6qm2.fsf@gnu.org> References: <651bbe21-f179-730a-4f10-7dc6d27055ea@gmail.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20986"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 20 08:19:20 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1owebm-0005Dd-Ub for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2022 08:19:19 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oweb7-0000pe-UZ; Sun, 20 Nov 2022 02:18:37 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oweb0-0000no-NS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2022 02:18:31 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oweaz-0006Jf-Tx; Sun, 20 Nov 2022 02:18:29 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=mjdbHAQ1tIC8b0no34hPQ4EXrAyfW5qV4W8gkN4gCiA=; b=JMFw6n5P3YQj XOcW0efWR1TCOE4RR27qTqQblhMkLB09Q/mhyIHcE58COWK+b0Gi6tslfjTKCRY2U1XxXNWjK2+tc 4qSvmDozkZt+NzJavbHmSmhVzlNXbnuTe/xE9SXKEs/wdqjsuFGoF6BSEcE0HRtVv2x3P4b4cOhVe nAA6e2XzjLhgbdG5sKAt++Uz/3B/HaWCEJls5kXCjh1C1f52FKtYjfuRKhMRzrH2sidK7UvnOjhjn kJmCEpzPcdGpbbEhrv3lw+QSTAxLeZ1ZCcg9cCiclCdrsK1v20XRa6S/yJeRTeLdJ2DqQtBoQp4Ln Tjbzg62dAgLpF7Jfw+bYOQ==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oweaq-0007R1-UA; Sun, 20 Nov 2022 02:18:22 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 19 Nov 2022 22:51:15 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:300231 Archived-At: > From: Drew Adams > CC: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" > Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 22:51:15 +0000 > > FWIW, I'd (passively) like to see this topic progress. What kind of progress? Is deciding that we don't (yet) need packages in Emacs Lisp going to be considered "progress" in your opinion? > If Richard, Gerd, and whomever else would lock > themselves together in a room (virtual or real) for > a weekend and come to senses & consensus, that > might result in a Hallelujah, maybe even a Eureka!, > moment. Might or might not. In lieu of that room, > there's this thread... Sorry, but it isn't just up to Richard and Gerd. As I wrote at the beginning of this thread, I'm not convinced we need this kind of functionality in Emacs Lisp (and I explained why I thought so). Until someone comes up with convincing arguments, I still submit that adding this kind of complexity into Emacs internals for the sake of functionality that is not really needed is not a good idea. (And no, "CL has it" is not a convincing argument in my book.)