From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Concurrency via isolated process/thread Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2023 10:35:13 +0300 Message-ID: <835y6tbkr2.fsf@gnu.org> References: <871qhnr4ty.fsf@localhost> <831qhmjwk0.fsf@gnu.org> <875y6y8nlr.fsf@localhost> <87h6qhnalc.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ilax71wo.fsf@localhost> <831qhli14t.fsf@gnu.org> <87wmzdxewc.fsf@localhost> <83r0plgjeo.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7kpxapo.fsf@localhost> <83mt09gcaf.fsf@gnu.org> <87wmzbc3af.fsf@localhost> <87edljhmjq.fsf@yahoo.com> <87fs5zbuwn.fsf@localhost> <871qhjgrku.fsf@yahoo.com> <831qhieumz.fsf@gnu.org> <87lefqg7yl.fsf@yahoo.com> <83h6qed8kw.fsf@gnu.org> <87h6qefwj0.fsf@yahoo.com> <83bkgmcx0q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a5w5gbs4.fsf@yahoo.com> <83bkglbmai.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7kleeub.fsf@yahoo.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37585"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: yantar92@posteo.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 09 09:36:11 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qIOxl-0009Yb-IU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 09:36:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qIOwp-000613-Af; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 03:35:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qIOwn-00060n-Pc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 03:35:09 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qIOwn-0000a5-Dh; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 03:35:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=+RFfX+uUEe25idbaxcVQ+rcz2wtnN/dPRfktZs+3Img=; b=pH8ZrUkW1kBu NXTMlcDUpK13yDtCNuMyfnAGUThqaezZv0roQNnLbc80e8xqwjGfQ7a3MpJsTiP61EM7BzyJTQU+F 0oCEAaGXBmxV5Kca2ESAqt3sVNsv3Pfej2D1KT+BTILzzH6awBwfkSjT9zKkEYf6NeYwfqVrYraJa buOmWJGm2BVuIiu5iO3GRPwqdSE8FKrL+PLKlzSqpe8Re3Ml2DrponTzTmY7Gka1WM+RUvJXWbbNg VXRk5ucbYs94DnTKwTa4rjvcjVvhqjKf6Zmr2afZHbaB/py5ctvo+5RZCW7OxlrFpW0x0b6DloMYO hgGmPrX1Mr4JfyDdoXMOTw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qIOwj-00085L-Pk; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 03:35:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87o7kleeub.fsf@yahoo.com> (message from Po Lu on Sun, 09 Jul 2023 15:14:36 +0800) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:307644 Archived-At: > From: Po Lu > Cc: yantar92@posteo.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2023 15:14:36 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > What's more, I don't think anyone really wants to have to > > write Lisp programs in a completely different way when we want them to > > run from threads. > > When programmers write such code for other interactive programs, they > are comfortable with the limitations of running code outside of the UI > thread. Why should writing new, thread-safe Lisp for Emacs be any more > difficult? Because we'd need to throw away 40 years of Lisp programming, and rewrite almost every bit of what was written since then. It's a huge setback for writing Emacs applications. > > Those mechanisms only work when Emacs is idle, which is bad for > > features like progress reporting. Doing this right requires to > > redesign how redisplay kicks in, and probably have several different > > kinds of redisplay, not one. > > Maybe. I haven't worked out the details of that yet, but in most other > GUI programs and toolkits, messages from other threads can only be > processed by the UI thread while it is idle. Emacs doesn't have a UI thread, as you know.