From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Turning on savehist-mode by default Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 09:40:32 +0200 Message-ID: <835y0xl1jj.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87wmufm7r7.fsf@catern.com> <83h6kikkag.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38658"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: sbaugh@catern.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 17 08:41:31 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rElmF-0009tg-AC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:41:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rElld-0002Km-H8; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 02:40:53 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEllc-0002Kc-8N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 02:40:52 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEllX-0003aY-UC; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 02:40:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=7wf+kmq9et5MTfVVAtlMfUBMiZzl3m9/WiE6cw1X9ZE=; b=RlMSzy15M56M SPhL3HEv5SjfcbnF7RHLvl70ENHS1ATLwduDr7gQdAoFTUqn4QQCkcE/Nlz+Nh4nCnq5XZJjapLdH 7Yc5B1MuDG6K4uf2kS2SqFzJ7vWihTdYcxeysETnQ7JDr9bq6jbuxny5u+UUktluZ8MXBSq9qqEVV NvpvzhlYEa+SPb/kxPWAM1mOBRA6yJ/27TWd1JTVxT5cDxFrQ7Spo60PGq+YkyG1ErYosqHEONimA ox9nOc+OX1mZY++9T9ufP0hYiaf4Wm2JvAlHEyxnq+MN3nanO2sZOEHfG1GyG4KpJRoZFQYCPJ8Q3 psp3si64M+EKJCool69V1g==; In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 16 Dec 2023 14:57:48 -0800) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:313902 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 14:57:48 -0800 > Cc: sbaugh@catern.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> From: Stefan Kangas > >> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 11:01:22 -0800 > >> > >> I didn't see any serious objections, so perhaps we could move forward > >> with this proposal. Eli, WDYT? > > > > There wasn't a compelling reason to turn it on, either. "Other > > programs save history" is not enough in my book. Other programs also > > have the equivalent of recentf ON by default, but we don't. > > This is my reasoning: > > Users these days will expect that their history is saved between > invocations of Emacs, as most other programs do that (including > e.g. bash and even many languages REPLs). This customization is common > in many starter kits, and is frequently recommended to beginners. Not > doing it is somewhat surprising and inconvenient. Whether users indeed expect this is something I suggest to verify, by polling. What is the percentage of users who enable savehist in their customizations? > > One disadvantage that was never discussed is that if we turn it on by > > default, we'd need to preload savehist. > > I didn't check how it affects the size of a running Emacs. The ELC is > only around 12 KB here, FWIW. Well, yes, it is not huge, but we shouldn't preload anything we don't have to, because it's a penalty for everyone, even those who turn the feature off. > > All in all, I'm not sure we should do this. Perhaps a more wide user > > poll is in order. > > I suppose we could ask people on /r/emacs, if that would help. Yes, I think we should. But this should be organized so that we will know the fraction of users who turn this on, so we'd need to hear from people who turn it on and from those who don't.