From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Translation of manuals (was: SES manual French translation) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2024 14:35:27 +0200 Message-ID: <835y0b29rk.fsf@gnu.org> References: <831qb45fog.fsf@gnu.org> <50A7AFED-DA37-4212-9ED1-7D906C34B6B2@traductaire-libre.org> <83o7e51bws.fsf@gnu.org> <83mstp11sz.fsf@gnu.org> <91D00B9D-0057-4748-8C83-50E749FE3961@traductaire-libre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34308"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr, stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org To: Jean-Christophe Helary Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 02 13:36:48 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rKe0m-0008jd-1K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2024 13:36:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rKe07-0006G5-9J; Tue, 02 Jan 2024 07:36:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rKdzv-0006E6-GW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2024 07:35:56 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rKdzu-0007RZ-H0; Tue, 02 Jan 2024 07:35:54 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=jkTI0Jyx6dM5vneqtQ8k5jaQo6b68chO79jP4MWF9d8=; b=azjfkqvMhUIYu40BdKXW JuYjJP9dtQnr3Xr8BD3u2xWBgna5AfcgqFyuDQ32xSI31QKe0G8n+6MEjgiwpK/reg3fPNeGBJOCp 2yKdenM6G86EOcIpK7ZMl88P1iRGs2mS5Hh1MFNHLVVdp0Whr7Fkkp0THYBblQZceFWfa2L5/Q0/v b7JCgbR2aNS9LgAZMxXKkUDlm0GXaFv53crC96/bKIbYFuIhPd7V54zvWcNpbbR92S0HJfsBFbmee jddRrAiuxHhWsKNaxSmcdZ0RSpSDEqtcCBCCk10GW+Fo4gRDfoofRBRljJb7po5ZkwNFzQNZ5AcHr Z8cDYGvpT8yKLw==; In-Reply-To: <91D00B9D-0057-4748-8C83-50E749FE3961@traductaire-libre.org> (message from Jean-Christophe Helary on Mon, 01 Jan 2024 23:11:19 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314450 Archived-At: > Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2024 23:11:19 +0000 > From: Jean-Christophe Helary > Cc: vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr, stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org > > > On Jan 2, 2024, at 1:00, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > > Finding an efficient way of updating translations of the manuals is a > > worthy goal, but it's a separate issue. At least in the case of > > ses.texi (and many other manuals in doc/misc) the rate of changes is > > quite low, as you can see from "git log". > > It’s an issue I’m discussing here because you suggested that we discuss > translation issues here :) I just said it's a separate issue, not that it shouldn't be discussed here. I started a new thread. > > If and when you decide on doing that, I'm guessing that we will need > > to keep the original "source" files for the translations in the Git > > repository, and find a suitable way of producing *.texi from them. > > I'm not sure po4a is the best alternative; we should probably consider > > others as well and find what is best for us. > > Do you have other alternatives in mind? Not at the moment, no. And I'm not even sure this is our Emacs-specific problem to solve. If the GNU Project is going to support translations of the manuals, the ways of doing that should be discussed project-wide, probably on then Texinfo mailing list or at least with the participation of the Texinfo developers. > If we were not to use an intermediate format and directly use texi, > we’d need a translation reference format, like TMX, but it could be > translated PO files, since they share a similar structure. The > translators would translate chunk by chunk and need a tool that > identifies already translated chunks from the reference format and use > them instead. We could for starters invent some simple technique of our own, like markers within the Texinfo sources that identify small enough chunks of text, or something similar. And again: the rate of change of the misc manuals is quite low. If and when someone will decide to translate the Emacs user manual or the ELisp reference manual, then we'll have a serious problem with keeping up with the rate of changes. But not before that.