From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GUI X-FreeDesktop integration Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 16:03:58 +0300 Message-ID: <834ken80xt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <7f52af92-4fb5-74b4-232a-eabfa315ac0@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <8335u9bsc5.fsf@gnu.org> <983c9c1-668f-4b82-896-9d41abfef910@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37488"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Peter Oliver Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri May 28 15:04:40 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lmcAK-0009UI-2T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 28 May 2021 15:04:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40186 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lmcAI-0006wt-FH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 28 May 2021 09:04:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49058) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lmc9b-0006HF-AG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 May 2021 09:03:55 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53848) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lmc9a-00015U-Vu; Fri, 28 May 2021 09:03:54 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4321 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lmc9a-0004fD-FK; Fri, 28 May 2021 09:03:54 -0400 In-Reply-To: <983c9c1-668f-4b82-896-9d41abfef910@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> (message from Peter Oliver on Fri, 28 May 2021 13:54:11 +0100 (BST)) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:269998 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 13:54:11 +0100 (BST) > From: Peter Oliver > cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > This is a backward-incompatible change, so why should it be the > > default, and not the alternative action via right-click? > > As argued by others earlier in the thread, this is consistent with the behaviour of other applications that are capable of opening multiple documents in the same window, such as Firefox or Gedit. I understand, but it still doesn't sound to me like a reason good enough to make such a serious change in the behavior of Emacs. IMO, it is better to introduce this as an optional behavior for now, and only make it the default much later, if many people come to expect that. > So, we can say that users who mostly launch things by clicking on icons in their desktops will be likely to expect things to work this way. Conversely, it seems reasonable to worry less about catering for people who do not have this expectation, because we can infer that they rarely click on the icons. I don't see how you can make that conclusion with such certainty. Not all the applications behave in that way, so it's quite possible that people don't expect every application to do it. Thus, it isn't a catastrophe that Emacs behaves like it does, and like it did until now. > > And anyway, > > wouldn't some people be surprised to see emacsclient frame when they > > expected a new instance of Emacs, without their say-so? > > My feeling is that plenty of people will find the current behaviour surprising, too. Opening multiple instances of emacs seems like a fairly niche thing to want to do, unless, say, you˘re launching it with -Q, in which case you need to run it from the command line anyway. I hear quite a few people run at least two instances of Emacs, for example if they don't want Gnus fetching new articles and email to freeze the interactive session for prolonged times. And there can be other similar reasons to do the same. We don't automatically make new options be the default unless the old behavior makes absolutely no sense or is otherwise dangerous or not useful. I don't see this case matching any of that, so IMO we shouldn't make this behavior the default right away. Does anyone else have an opinion on this aspect?