From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: sqlite3 Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2021 09:26:22 +0200 Message-ID: <834k76cr1d.fsf@gnu.org> References: <878rwx8mdn.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgpdhw4d.fsf@yahoo.com> <2F63580E-FF58-45D0-9DBB-389ED64C0F11@mit.edu> <83v8zzw867.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnk7kkxp.fsf@red-bean.com> <837dc6j9ui.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3726"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, qhong@mit.edu, eric@ericabrahamsen.net, cesar.mena@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, kfogel@red-bean.com, acm@muc.de To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 18 08:27:32 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1myU7w-0000mr-5c for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 18 Dec 2021 08:27:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37934 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1myU7u-00050p-Q5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 18 Dec 2021 02:27:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57992) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1myU7A-0004Im-07 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Dec 2021 02:26:44 -0500 Original-Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=38710 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1myU78-0005f0-S2; Sat, 18 Dec 2021 02:26:42 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=1qYSLAyC53OVgb0wt3wVc+wmgepTbCe/54kYqvxmRDc=; b=F+2WoIOtbQUn i2eosBipmvKKe1QnY+9sqysw5+uENtnzUhTy7mciGC2+kcHkiyHiL2taUYCDwt0N75DYqvWduChMS bXAHk/c2tDOh8Y/OyTf6XOFCNo7QuVKiYotttlIKDJaTkhrmrqTHLT3vYckpCnDaoDTGn1pWu5ZhV DcoB5b2De8HP1mD+YzDCRhIEHk233BRqjEnGRF2NsfA2N+8+YmfqNJZosMjNfu/e+2cIcN1+Zn1Cv B/z9ZVIpfu8KFiEzWs6t4rqoH+yNZxgp8KNRLRLLx3q91+qYb2SZOO+L4r0itp7nVCTh1loEU56c4 dDaaWjIWd0y+0WPJtWCXXA==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2669 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1myU71-0008N3-Vp; Sat, 18 Dec 2021 02:26:36 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Fri, 17 Dec 2021 23:42:07 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:282255 Archived-At: > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 23:42:07 -0500 > Cc: kfogel@red-bean.com, qhong@mit.edu, eric@ericabrahamsen.net, > cesar.mena@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, luangruo@yahoo.com, eliz@gnu.org > > > Normally, potential new features spend more than just a few days on a > > git branch, allowing people the chance to try them out and spot any > > problems. That didn't happen with this new sqlite feature. > > That is where I see a problem, too. Which problem is that? According to Git logs, the sqlite branch was created on Dec 6, and merged to master on Dec 11. That's almost a week. We ask people to try a branch when it provides a significant feature that could affect everyday use of Emacs, or if we have reasons to believe it could mis-compile or break on some platforms or configurations, or if it has some significant user-facing aspects for which we'd like feedback. That's why the bidirectional display was originally on a branch. That's why the PGTK build is on a branch now. In all other cases, we use feature branches to allow the developer to work on a feature without affecting people who track the master branch, as long as the feature isn't mature enough to land on master. We then merge to master when the branch is mature enough. Which is exactly what happened here: this is a minor feature that is almost orthogonal to anything else in Emacs, so there was no reason to keep it on a branch longer than it took to make it mature and stable. We have enough examples of features that were merged when they were less stable than this one, we have merged stuff that broke the Emacs build on one or more platforms. This is normal in development, not something to worry about. Sorry for being blunt, but I suspect that people who demand features to be left on branches for prolonged periods of time want to delay those features or prevent their merge in the first place. > sqlite3 has problematic implications. There may be a good solution > but we have not determined that. Meanwhile, other solutions were > there to be considered. Frommy POV, the problematic implications of sqlite3, such as they are, were adequately addressed. Other solutions were considered in due time, and one of them is now in the codebase. I see no problem here. > We should not have rushed the decision on what to do. We should have > taken it slow, leaving time for people to study various solutions and > make a thoughtful decision. We didn't rush. There was a discussion with many participants that took several days, opinions were heard and considered. The decision process was sound. I understand that people who disagree with the decision might feel the process was lacking, but it is not so. > Perhaps that decision would have included installing sqlite3. I won't > say it wouldn't. But we should not repeat the way that decision was > made. Since I see no problem with the decision-making process in this case, I don't think I understand what exactly should not be repeated. It was a relatively simple decision to make, there's no reason to make a mountain out of a molehill.