From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2023 21:52:18 +0300 Message-ID: <834jiad1gd.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <831qdlpoye.fsf@gnu.org> <83sf5xhnym.fsf@gnu.org> <871qdhk49w.fsf@dataswamp.org> <25914.49745.111873.734458@orion.rgrjr.com> <87jzr6iutu.fsf@dataswamp.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="344"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Emanuel Berg Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 28 20:53:08 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qwoQl-000ANv-Am for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 20:53:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qwoQF-00033B-Ve; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 14:52:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qwoQD-0002zq-MK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 14:52:33 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qwoQD-00045m-8n; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 14:52:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=oP0amlSW0pkfS++0UfFAxGH8tIXNXsFg+EU/cVW6qVU=; b=eGjsfdcXd1kJ WvHhiQTkkzvszjBMHxVHc1SAWh5WKJWjzwmwRSbRmH2pzM/oeo7A9qbZODBMtwEeG2xIMggaL+Ctg L59QbLnx0/sw0tPzPDxnxxBh+SDtShWsL+1hDWn7c1gSGxA1eYoR6YBNEhEksSdhWfyIkM9SgCuNS ZvXB2sk4GG2ILpccQyyI9STZSFGnHWg1WW3vboPzEWn12VMFaM0wlSeKmiOAQ6eHUhQOQEiMenJYU xcGFU5HunkA3jMWTy+CjKZvXKo8s85jdD3rlpe7d/sbHCsabRhMttJrOh2jXQk8PlVQlfNy42w2a3 xxkSNlqwPJ2PDMHAE353CA==; In-Reply-To: <87jzr6iutu.fsf@dataswamp.org> (message from Emanuel Berg on Sat, 28 Oct 2023 18:18:53 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311959 Archived-At: > From: Emanuel Berg > Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2023 18:18:53 +0200 > > Stefan Kangas wrote: > > > More fundamentally, I believe the question we should be > > asking isn't the quantity of cl-lib used in Emacs, but > > rather why these abstractions from Common Lisp appeal to > > ELisp developers. Most ELisp developers, I presume, do not > > have a background in Common Lisp, indicating that their > > choice to use cl-lib.el isn't driven by a mere affinity > > for CL. > > Good idea, I tried this to find out. Maybe the command can be > improved ... > > $ grep -E -h -o 'cl-[-a-z]*' **/*.el | sort | uniq -c | sort -r -b -n | head -n 10 > > 1416 cl-defmethod > 979 cl-loop > 720 cl-incf > 614 cl-lib > 486 cl-assert > 309 cl-letf > 303 cl-seq > 281 cl-defstruct > 257 cl-defgeneric > 227 cl-case Some of these are macros in cl-macs, so not relevant to the discussion about cl-lib.