From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes, people want to use cl-lib? Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2023 17:39:10 +0200 Message-ID: <834ji27so1.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83a5ru7w0b.fsf@gnu.org> <837cmy7tut.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1233"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: paaguti@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 03 16:40:16 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qywHP-000Ae3-St for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 03 Nov 2023 16:40:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qywGf-0003kc-3S; Fri, 03 Nov 2023 11:39:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qywGS-0003iS-P2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Nov 2023 11:39:19 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qywGS-0006or-7H; Fri, 03 Nov 2023 11:39:16 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=/cYLUqL7ziYxDVjrzE+WltOntFiwHUBNFp555wXC600=; b=iBE/BoyX73b1NHz3lGO0 HtOf9j0//SRT5ht39hR2a5HhKmsft+Y5ZsOj73PJsmCberetX9hsfV4i6TycBDf4xPYZbRkQp5E9B akqryArjXEicBtQaFtg0uufoOzKf62SfY46qAuHok7uVShxLXAxRlPK9kPnr7VcBgK7tfCErAwB90 M/MB/jHk8WB+PFll6Hgyc2zzznfaz0jruzP2mOJ5e0FGyi7QW9OGiGSS90PBdcVDKCd14DvHjwZ6e WdtiQkUF5D25eiYsEF9B0y/OXAQCBj3RXFvU60zCPWWaboQTdc87gYMNy31qVf4mbrJmbmQAK+XAr iO5KHtfc1nevJQ==; In-Reply-To: (message from Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=B6llmann?= on Fri, 03 Nov 2023 16:30:47 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312169 Archived-At: > From: Gerd Möllmann > Cc: paaguti@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2023 16:30:47 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> From: Gerd Möllmann > >> Cc: paaguti@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > >> Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2023 16:08:09 +0100 > >> > >> What I'm missing is a positive reason why to use it. I don't see one. > > > > It's preloaded. I think this is a good reason for using it. > > Sparing 10^-7 seconds, when cl-lib is already loaded anyway? These are not the only situations in Emacs. For example, in preloaded code. > > The fact > > that it's preloaded should also say something about how the Emacs > > maintainers see seq.el and its future. > > I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but that's kind of a weak > argument. And an entirely non-technical one. When we decided to preload it, the reasons were technical. So I don't see why the above is not a technical argument.