From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Instead of pcase Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2023 09:21:23 +0200 Message-ID: <834jh2bd70.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87fs169mjj.fsf@posteo.net> <093f11a1-57c2-5e56-d39b-26fef1c67cbb@gutov.dev> <25942.25061.217864.329049@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <87zfzdcz6z.fsf@posteo.net> <87zfza2aq2.fsf@web.de> <7nmsv9zq6u.fsf@ecube.ecubist.org> <7nv89x5tsi.fsf@ecube.ecubist.org> <87o7focuf5.fsf@web.de> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24401"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, michael_heerdegen@web.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 01 08:22:31 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r8xr4-0006BV-QV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2023 08:22:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r8xqH-0005Qi-HN; Fri, 01 Dec 2023 02:21:42 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r8xqC-0005QQ-D8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2023 02:21:36 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r8xqB-0006e8-Rv; Fri, 01 Dec 2023 02:21:35 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=883EpTDnCxYH0ReBbCtXFURKUsO8X+yEwAd7aDkkHj4=; b=FKlkLzXmL74j uU6oM2yAinYpfhPWnQj793OdxfaRUFmmomcXi6uN1i0kKXHDs2SpRx5uar65VrvrjiRjeSMoyjnaj MgKplJeYB95PcdZVjx59goCswfjOMFXzWSDymHvuio/Onatsym3yoIAw1n4N4ChOtkTMEezf+BEqT yQ5lkUBYVgrqFCn+wWWYkkxDfz3uJ9Yq2cRARYRnUDxJFoZX07eiixkN4Y+8gBGONzZ0CrmIHwCZH Fcj7EJYC87YSITwuwnmAma/ek6fnjNF7atDtc/3SVRuCBHMiQRXuuUo2RNEuuYA1MGzQc3yIvQp8G 2UDhM+syjViJmzyGU5UQQw==; In-Reply-To: (message from Dmitry Gutov on Fri, 1 Dec 2023 02:18:00 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:313420 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 02:18:00 +0200 > Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Dmitry Gutov > > Choosing an new syntax should be possible (indeed, somebody posted a > link to a similar construct in Racket which is more wordy), but then > those who don't like high-level constructs probably won't like it > either. I think the point is not with high-level vs lower-level constructs, the point is with syntax and semantics that deviate significantly from Emacs Lisp syntax and semantics. Syntax that is natural in Emacs Lisp and uses good mnemonics in its keywords is easy to understand at a glance, whereas syntax that deviates requires a full understanding of all the details before you can interpret the code. For example, constructs such as the many with-SOMETHING macros we have in Emacs are also higher-level than the actual code they expand into, but code using these macros is very easy to understand because the syntax is normative and the names of the macros are descriptive enough to be mnemonically helpful.