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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: "Allen S. Rout" <asr@ufl.edu>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs as word processor
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 23:15:13 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <8338mkb2u6.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <l70cnu$bmu$1@ger.gmane.org>

> From: "Allen S. Rout" <asr@ufl.edu>
> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:42:52 -0500
> 
> On 11/23/2013 03:22 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > 
> > The layout depends on the medium in very minor ways, as long as we are
> > talking about the "usual" page sizes.  If what you have in mind is A3
> > paper or greeting cards, then the layout is indeed greatly affected,
> > but that's taking the issue to its extreme.
> > 
> > IOW, WYSIWYG is much more than just layout.
> > 
> 
> I think this is a critical point, and I think that Eli is deeply
> incorrect here.  WYSIWYG is -only- about layout, for the overwhelming
> majority of its users.  I think that's why many of us aren't so fond of it.

Then I guess there are several conflicting ways of interpreting
WYSIWYG.  It's not that I just landed from Mars, or never saw a
WYSIWYG word processor before.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

Of course, the real question is what did Richard have in mind.

> There is no distinction between letter and greeting cards which is not
> present in the comparison between letter and
> letter-with-really-small-margins. Line breaks, kerning, justification
> details... all of this is relevant if we actually want WYSIWYG.

I won't object if Emacs supported writing papers in a WYSIWYGy
fashion, but didn't support greeting cards.



  reply	other threads:[~2013-11-25 21:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 239+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-11-17  7:28 Emacs as word processor Richard Stallman
2013-11-17  8:18 ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-18 18:44   ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-18 22:12     ` Rasmus
2013-11-19  6:02       ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-19  8:01         ` joakim
2013-11-19 23:42           ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-20  6:54             ` joakim
2013-11-20 18:01               ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-23  6:07               ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-19 10:57         ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-19 12:20           ` Thorsten Jolitz
2013-11-19 14:35             ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-19 13:28         ` Sivaram Neelakantan
2013-11-20 18:35           ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-26  8:38     ` Tom
2013-11-26 15:58       ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-26 23:08         ` Bastien
2013-11-26 23:26           ` Lennart Borgman
2013-12-15 16:16         ` Steinar Bang
2013-11-17 11:16 ` Daniel Colascione
2013-11-17 13:02   ` Nic Ferrier
2013-11-17 13:55     ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-17 14:15       ` Juergen Fenn
2013-11-17 18:57         ` chad
2013-11-18  4:20   ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-18  5:06     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found]       ` <l6dsng$6h4$1"@ger.gmane.org>
     [not found]         ` <87mwl04w3k.fsf"@zigzag.favinet>
     [not found]       ` <"<l6dsng$6h4$1"@ger.gmane.org>
     [not found]         ` <"<87mwl04w3k.fsf"@zigzag.favinet>
2013-11-18 18:44       ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-18 19:42         ` Sean Sieger
2013-11-18 19:46           ` Sean Sieger
2013-11-19  6:01           ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-19  7:08             ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-18 20:19         ` Allen S. Rout
2013-11-19  6:02           ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-19  8:46             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2013-11-19  9:39               ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-19 11:21               ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-19 14:35               ` Allen S. Rout
2013-11-19 15:54                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2013-11-20 18:35                   ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-21 15:25                     ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2013-11-21 16:18                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-21 21:27                       ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-21 22:03                         ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-22  0:51                         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-22  6:37                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-22 21:06                             ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-22 15:04                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 15:26                             ` Davis Herring
2013-11-22 16:06                               ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-22 17:56                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 19:01                                 ` John Yates
2013-11-22 21:17                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                     ` <CAJnXXoi2biZ0uOAB9s-0Y5=9EujpCV4a=CemR-K+wHeJVSB51A@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                       ` <83a9gvcyq3.fsf@gnu.org>
2013-11-23 15:13                                         ` John Yates
2013-11-23 15:24                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-23 16:43                                             ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-23 17:52                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-23 21:12                                                 ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-25 17:51                                             ` John Yates
2013-11-25 18:02                                               ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-25 18:40                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-25 18:54                                                   ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-25 18:52                                               ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-26  7:26                                                 ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-22 21:06                             ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-22 21:38                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 22:01                                 ` John Yates
2013-11-22 22:56                                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-23  7:55                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 22:53                                 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-23  8:22                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-23 13:42                                     ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-24  8:13                                       ` PJ Weisberg
2013-11-24 17:44                                         ` Drew Adams
2013-11-25 20:42                                     ` Allen S. Rout
2013-11-25 21:15                                       ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2013-11-25 21:21                                         ` Allen S. Rout
2013-11-25 21:54                                         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
     [not found]                     ` <<877gc14vzs.fsf@zigzag.favinet>
     [not found]                       ` <<E1Vjbn0-0005Bd-4Z@fencepost.gnu.org>
2013-11-21 22:12                         ` Drew Adams
2013-11-22  7:34                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 13:56                             ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-22 14:48                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 14:50                                 ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-22 15:39                                 ` Yuri Khan
2013-11-22 16:07                                   ` John Yates
2013-11-23  6:06                                     ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-23  8:07                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-23 21:12                                         ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-24  4:53                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-24 18:37                                             ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-24 20:21                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-24 20:52                                                 ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-24 21:06                                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2013-11-24 21:10                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-25  2:15                                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-25  3:55                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-25  5:20                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-25 17:39                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-26  2:35                                                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-26  3:58                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-26  7:05                                                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-26 15:34                                                                   ` John Yates
2013-11-26 16:57                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-26 18:47                                                                       ` John Yates
2013-11-26 15:04                                                               ` Drew Adams
2013-11-26 19:51                                                                 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-26 20:36                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2013-11-26 19:48                                                               ` Emacs as word processor / Text Properties Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-27  2:35                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-27 22:26                                                                 ` T.V. Raman
2013-11-27 23:01                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2013-11-27 23:06                                                                     ` T.V. Raman
2013-11-27 23:48                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2013-11-28  0:50                                                                         ` T.V. Raman
2013-11-28  1:27                                                                           ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-28  4:04                                                                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-28  6:03                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2013-11-28  7:13                                                                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-28  7:34                                                                                 ` Bastien
2013-11-28  8:53                                                                                   ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-29  8:44                                                                           ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-29  8:49                                                                             ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-29  8:52                                                                               ` Bastien
2013-11-29  9:01                                                                                 ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-29  9:05                                                                                   ` Bastien
2013-11-29  9:10                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-29  9:51                                                                               ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-29 11:43                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-29 13:42                                                                                   ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-29 14:25                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-29 16:47                                                                                       ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-29 19:38                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-29 14:18                                                                                   ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-29 15:22                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-29 10:06                                                                             ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-29  6:50                                                                   ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-30  1:09                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-02 20:04                                                               ` Emacs as word processor Hendrik Boom
2013-11-25  3:06                                                   ` Yuri Khan
2013-11-26  0:04                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-22 17:58                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-23  0:00                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-23  6:06                               ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-23  6:05                             ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-23  6:05                           ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-15 16:39                     ` Steinar Bang
2013-12-16 17:19                       ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-16 18:02                         ` Jambunathan K
2013-12-16 18:38                         ` Allen S. Rout
2013-12-17 10:52                           ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-17 11:39                             ` Steinar Bang
2013-12-16 19:10                         ` Steinar Bang
2013-12-17 10:52                           ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-16 20:37                         ` Juan M. Gonzalez
2013-12-17 10:53                           ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-17 11:41                             ` Steinar Bang
2013-12-17 11:48                             ` Achim Gratz
2013-12-17 12:22                               ` Steinar Bang
2013-12-17 21:06                               ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-19  7:28                                 ` Bastien
2013-12-19 18:23                                   ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-19 18:45                                     ` Bastien
2013-12-19 23:24                                   ` Xue Fuqiao
2013-11-20 18:35                 ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-21  6:02                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-21 14:34                     ` Allen S. Rout
2013-11-21 21:16                       ` Tom
2013-11-22  6:54                         ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-22  7:22                           ` Ivan Andrus
2013-11-22 13:26                       ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
2013-11-22  6:54                     ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-20 18:35               ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-20 18:53                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-21  8:00                   ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-21 16:21                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-21 18:34                       ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-21 19:06                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22  7:28                           ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-21  9:15                   ` Bastien
2013-11-21  9:22                     ` Bastien
2013-11-21 16:26                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-21 17:43                       ` Bastien
2013-11-22 10:18                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 20:44                         ` Thorsten Jolitz
2013-11-22  6:54                     ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-22  7:48                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22  7:52                         ` Bastien
2013-11-22 11:36                       ` Rasmus
2013-11-19  8:04         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-19 23:42           ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-19  9:02         ` Christoph
2013-11-19 19:22           ` chad
2013-11-20 18:35             ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-18 13:59     ` Rasmus
2013-11-17 15:27 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-18 17:26 ` Christopher Allan Webber
2013-11-18 17:31   ` Tom Tromey
2013-11-19  9:20     ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-19  6:01   ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-19  7:44     ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-19 13:32     ` Jay Belanger
2013-11-19 15:16     ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-20  1:50     ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-20 18:35       ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-15 17:28     ` Steinar Bang
2013-12-15 18:18       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-16  0:17         ` T.V. Raman
2013-12-16 10:20           ` Juan M. Gonzalez
2013-11-19  6:14   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-22 16:19 ` Karl Voit
2013-11-22 18:18   ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-24 11:11     ` Emacs will never be a WYSIWYG-editor and should not try to (was: Emacs as word processor) Karl Voit
2013-11-24 15:01       ` Emacs will never be a WYSIWYG-editor and should not try to Thien-Thi Nguyen
2013-11-24 16:53       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-24 17:27         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-25 12:24         ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-26  7:01           ` Bastien
2013-11-26  9:10             ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-26  9:15               ` Bastien
2013-11-26  9:34                 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-26  9:34                   ` Bastien
2013-11-26 15:58               ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-26 18:28                 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-26 21:45                   ` Achim Gratz
2013-11-27  7:44                     ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-26 15:58             ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-26 21:33               ` Achim Gratz
2013-11-24 18:36       ` Emacs will never be a WYSIWYG-editor and should not try to (was: Emacs as word processor) Richard Stallman
2013-11-23  6:06   ` Emacs as word processor Richard Stallman
2013-12-02 19:30 ` Hendrik Boom
2013-12-03  6:24   ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2013-12-03  9:54   ` René Kyllingstad
2013-12-03 11:36     ` Jambunathan K
2013-12-03 16:32       ` T.V. Raman
2013-12-03 17:45         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-08 17:08       ` Andreas Röhler
2013-12-13 22:28 ` Juan M. Gonzalez
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2013-11-23 21:03 Anas R.
2013-11-25 12:25 ` Richard Stallman
     [not found] <"<E1Vhwmp-0001x4-Pa"@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found] <E1Vhwmp-0001x4-Pa"@fencepost.gnu.org>

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