From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Summary and next steps for (package-initialize) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 05:37:01 +0300 Message-ID: <83378kba5u.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83tw12cocz.fsf@gnu.org> <83d17qcfa1.fsf@gnu.org> <83h8x0c206.fsf@gnu.org> <83efs4byzj.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1503369441 1604 195.159.176.226 (22 Aug 2017 02:37:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 02:37:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Radon Rosborough Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 22 04:37:17 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1djz45-0008TG-2I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 04:37:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54404 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djz4B-0000Lp-JA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:37:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42301) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djz40-0000LH-8o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:37:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djz3x-0005k6-65 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:37:08 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51218) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djz3x-0005jz-2Y; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:37:05 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2136 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1djz3w-00010a-GC; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:37:04 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Radon Rosborough on Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:33:51 -0700) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217674 Archived-At: > From: Radon Rosborough > Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:33:51 -0700 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > That being said, one possibility is to have a function in package.el > > scan the user init file for the definition of package-load-list, and > > process that line before loading the packages. > > I really don't want to sound rude, but... *please* no. That would be a > horrible hack. We do something very similar in other situations, like finding the file-local variables. > It will fail in so many different circumstances: > package-load-list set in a different file, package-load-list set > dynamically, package-load-list set in an unconventional way, > package-load-list set by a macro, etc. etc. etc. Nothing that cannot be handled. > Emacs Lisp is Turing-complete. It is futile for Emacs to try to > understand it. That's a strange thing to say about a program which implements that very language. Anyway, the proposal still stays, and I just pointed out one way, perhaps not the best one, out of the conundrum that you described as insoluble. I hope someone will come up with a better solution, or implement what I proposed. Otherwise, I predict that we will remain at an impasse for some time more.