From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an improved `help-for-help' Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 18:12:49 +0200 Message-ID: <8335xow072.fsf@gnu.org> References: <838s7hxqkr.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9alw7nu.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8gdw4zt.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16913"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 22 17:16:28 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lEDsq-0004I1-I0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 17:16:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41058 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lEDsp-0007vk-GH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:16:27 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52384) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lEDpU-0003p8-Gl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:13:05 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57282) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lEDpU-0002S8-0T; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:13:00 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4165 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lEDpS-0003mu-V9; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:12:59 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sun, 21 Feb 2021 17:27:51 -0600) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:265484 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 17:27:51 -0600 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > So it _is_ about the order. But then I think we should discuss the > > underlying principles, and then order the commands accordingly. > > > > The rationale for the order in the manual was to show the discovery > > commands first, and the commands for focused help later. > > To be honest, I didn't yet think very hard about this problem. But > sure, we can discuss it. Any suggestions or ideas are welcome. > > My preliminary thinking here is that we should probably start with > something like `describe-mode' and perhaps `describe-bindings' -- things > that are about the basic commands to find help about the task that the > user is engaged in right now. Maybe together with `describe-key', and > `describe-command'. Since there can be different use cases, and each one could favor a different order, perhaps we should precede a short guide to the list? Like If you look for some feature, try "discovery" group. If you look for documentation of a command or a variable or a mode, try ... etc.