From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Renaming eglot -- or at least add an alias? Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2022 09:34:20 +0300 Message-ID: <8335c0p2fn.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83pmfdduix.fsf@gnu.org> <86wn9ji3ma.fsf@gmail.com> <86tu4lsnqk.fsf@gmail.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1451"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ams@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 07 08:37:35 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oggzH-00008i-Ha for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2022 08:37:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58380 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oggzF-0003jY-Uh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2022 02:37:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57474) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oggwK-0001tY-7A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2022 02:34:32 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39654) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oggwJ-000108-Uh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2022 02:34:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=ax/X7bqxU8aElrJsWSah9KgIg882HapExcNWuNrIxvQ=; b=Z7g3t+sML8Qj b/4c0ZfdhMvHSnz7hYK4AY2JJe9o+YNSWQmsutB7chUvUGacVbaafX3WybazyWXz3fBKUDmBOO0Qg HWJR0yfAhPWhiQd7ti/CeI1j00pAy844kuITzrDriRyrO9C0tb812qxEPsKG6CrJynm3KV1smNIso ckQ7soHZ8Wmv8TAsFymrE4/MJdQQ34NjeZeaS2t+dNS74CKfS3qGqxd39zk6wFXDa1ehRJ7wAfzOg dmNH3umwjwjnVLmI16lNPlN8xHOX4hTt3xfN6f9ONPsaQWLNAGFjsolfRgLhZkAWTNS2JhhOxfAp0 Up3f/1nqyrh8M2p1+FV6kw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3389 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oggw9-0002I9-Lm; Fri, 07 Oct 2022 02:34:21 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Thu, 06 Oct 2022 18:09:12 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:297139 Archived-At: > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 18:09:12 -0400 > > > Seeing that eglot would still keep it's original name, there is little > > to no reason to make up a name on the spot, and stop or hinder Eli > > from going forward working on the next release. > > If we include the package in the Emacs 29 release, that will call for > mentioning it in many places in documentation for users -- the places > that document the features it enhances. "Many places" is an exaggeration, IMO. Eglot will come with its own separate manual, will be briefly mentioned in the Emacs manual, and will be called out in NEWS. That's all I see at the moment. > Even if its own source code still carries the name "Eglot", those > improvements in documenation should carry the clearer name. > And a few places in the code should use the other name. The documentation mentioned above will explain what Eglot is and why that is its name (I'm working on the Eglot manual as we speak, so I know that's what the manual will do). But the name of the package is Eglot since 2017, when it appeared and Emacs users started using it, so it would be incorrect and un-clever for us to change its name 6 years after its appearance. We can (and will) make it easier for users to understand what its features do, by labeling the menus and describing in the doc strings and help-echo strings what the commands and variables really do and what effect they have on Emacs. If needed, we can also provide aliases or front-ends for Eglot commands and variables whose names don't mention Eglot, but are related to the command's or variable's real effect. For example, the command to start the language server and connect to it could have a name to that effect, or it could have a name related to the fact that it turns on language-server support. Please also keep in mind that many (perhaps even most, I didn't count yet) of Eglot's features are not explicitly invoked via the likes of "M-x eglot-SOMETHING". Instead, you enable Eglot in a buffer or for a project, and then features we already have in Emacs, like M-. or xref-find-references, or completion-at-point, or eldoc documentation and function signature hints, or flymake diagnostics -- these and other features are _enhanced_ by the information coming from the language server. Eglot works in the background, feeding these features with the language-server derived information, and is otherwise almost completely invisible to the user. So we are arguing about the name of something that is barely visible on the user level. > So we have a reason to finish this now. Documentation and menu labels are something that can be finalized after the release branch is cut, as it is routine maintenance job that is not of critical importance for the code stability. So I see no need to rush with that. We should have this discussion later, after Eglot is in core, people have read the documentation and tried to use Eglot in Real Life, and have much better understanding what it is and what it does (and also what it isn't and doesn't).