From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 08:09:26 +0300 Message-ID: <8334y3qm49.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87il8betof.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83fs3dgxv8.fsf@gnu.org> <835y38qvlg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0lqoo5x.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83msweu76j.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7gungi1.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87pm17iilu.fsf@> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36141"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Bidar Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 22 07:10:24 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1quQjI-0009GM-DW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 07:10:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quQiT-0005KH-TU; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 01:09:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quQiQ-0005Jg-SO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 01:09:31 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quQiP-0006tv-Cf; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 01:09:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=3EyvVqBaRVN7jmLSUVYhyE0PQDNNC6owtgUzA006UYw=; b=qPVCpTLJ05mahkrxryJa NgdYcZeX87naocQrpLp1y4YiVtyDhp1eCkl0syBFxhsrb4Z5iT0oz7/owjCwuJi9girFobaV4W1yE 2FToPdv+sj4HUrd+n4omIa2tp3yZaeIqLTH0yBnwmzvW/HivwABBEcbJ/bdoZHlLcA0E6DZlhbaws hyQ5HYRX0UYI4BTpCpqSLaPOaUv4Xd1Jim67Mfdo/i8wF7WqO1mIs2s9IjL+dxTnV8tYNvESLtj2a YP5O9YmcTh4jINLox2ow2xXTgO0bnyzaEcnz7HQCTqmVFvUXebw1ketaw4JAZz1gyzRDsvK0qeFW+ e3XQVyhYpJHsiw==; In-Reply-To: <87pm17iilu.fsf@> (message from =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Bidar on Sun, 22 Oct 2023 03:52:29 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311668 Archived-At: > From: Björn Bidar > Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 03:52:29 +0300 > > >From my point of view in some way it does sound like that some are > against it for ideological reasons rather than technical. I gave specific technical reasons for why we are trying to avoid preloading cl-lib. > Ideological vs practicism. It isn't. Again, I explained the policy. That Emanuel disregards what I said and keeps claiming it's ideology or that people prefer cl-lib etc. is not relevant to the actual issue at hand, nor to specific questions Richard asked (and I answered). This is purely a technical, practical issue of interest to Emacs maintainers, it has no bearing on how people write their own code or Emacs extensions they submit to Emacs. Of course, if cl-lib is used without any justification, patch review comments will usually point that out, but in that case cl-lib is not different from any other package, because Lisp code should not gratuitously load stuff it can do without. IOW, this is a matter of writing clean code, not of preferring or not preferring cl-lib.