From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 05:31:15 +0300 Message-ID: <8334y2oyrw.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87il8betof.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83fs3dgxv8.fsf@gnu.org> <835y38qvlg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0lqoo5x.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83msweu76j.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7gungi1.fsf@dataswamp.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32705"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: incal@dataswamp.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 23 04:32:29 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qukk1-0008IA-BS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 04:32:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qukj6-0007PG-4L; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 22:31:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qukix-0007OT-Kj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 22:31:26 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qukiw-0003pg-Bi; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 22:31:22 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=aHYS+9bnCOL4XdHUsOlR35GbjQAO+VSXVIbThdmR5MM=; b=mjhXdC+29sfT sNG2CZrVXGrolRP8znr3bc8glVUUah5rWpQ8ghHWR7Y+AarNJzdukgn+vfARYSj9/kVtRj5m2Rm1H sxdco0lUxbFI+Ah1zhf8zzwj4BSdvpVqwgUb9gsrYhEyTKKHCMmwa/3Y0nh9mN7a0/15k7/75SF7f U/0tYUz4ptOtT2IWpqcaoPzgahF58+WfgYR17336sPfR6bnDapo3vjaCKLyFegQy1yC/zd7Y4i0kt PRo8h+vMZMAFE2/AEKw4wUjET6096dvWOGxwZ1JHWhMt85+GYidvx7O9zazwEDMRo0BgVUwMLB0d7 f96PdcXiovavGrRU5gSlew==; In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Sun, 22 Oct 2023 22:08:55 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311695 Archived-At: > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 22:08:55 -0400 > > > But as we have seen in practice it _is_ loaded, be it by the > > debugger, by native compilation, or any other package or piece > > of Elisp that uses it, > > Let's fix the debugger, and native compilation, not to load cl-lib. That's not practical. I don't see any reason to waste our resources on doing that. > It's not so bad if you load a specialized package that serves your code > and it uses cl-lib. But the debugger can be loaded to debug anything, > even programs you have nothing to do with. It's rude for the debugger > to load cl-lib. The debugger uses cl-lib for good reasons. > Likewise for native compilation. You might recompile anything. Likewise here. I don't see a problem in these using cl-lib, and don't think we should be bothered about that.