From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: please make line-move-visual nil Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 06:01:25 +0300 Message-ID: <831vqdubqy.fsf@gnu.org> References: <23521879.post@talk.nabble.com> <7b501d5c0905131659r1d79ec56s5a59f76e4713edf9@mail.gmail.com> <23532135.post@talk.nabble.com> <87tz3odq3l.fsf@iki.fi> <23538683.post@talk.nabble.com> <87eiuru24b.fsf@iki.fi> <39370.130.55.118.19.1242397867.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <48914.130.55.118.19.1242592120.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <66C6BA04EBCF4B6DAED69E851627D852@us.oracle.com> <87eiue83i7.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87my92dmdt.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87eiudewtq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1243220501 21126 80.91.229.12 (25 May 2009 03:01:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 03:01:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 25 05:01:34 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1M8QRR-0006Zn-6g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 05:01:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40133 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M8QRQ-00072Q-Nw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 23:01:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M8QRL-0006yc-PV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 23:01:27 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M8QRL-0006x7-0M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 23:01:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=57163 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M8QRK-0006ww-Sx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 23:01:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout3.012.net.il ([84.95.2.7]:24180) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1M8QRK-0002XG-8A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 23:01:26 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.i_mtaout3.012.net.il by i_mtaout3.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) id <0KK600700IZ4JV00@i_mtaout3.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 06:01:24 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.228.115.215]) by i_mtaout3.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0KK6000F6J2CZJV0@i_mtaout3.012.net.il>; Mon, 25 May 2009 06:01:24 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <87eiudewtq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9.1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:111063 Archived-At: > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" > Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 11:32:49 +0900 > Cc: 'Leo' , Drew Adams , > emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Chong Yidong writes: > > > This was done in July 2008, and there were fairly extensive discussions > > on this list then, and on several occasions afterwards. > > Why have prereleases then, if it's "too late" for feedback from users > who are not willing to bleed on the edge, and who don't necessarily > read emacs-devel with their morning coffee? Pretest is not for changing the default behavior. They are for fixing bugs before the release. The time for users to voice their objections and requests for improvements is after Emacs is released. There's always the next release. > You should also consider that for this particular default, positive > responses will come quickly from those who use long lines a lot, while > they are unlikely to notice much aggravation in environments where > visual motion is likely to be inappropriate, because those environment > typically strongly discourage long lines anyway. Thus the complaints > are likely to be relatively late and few I don't know why you assume this: I happen to use longer-than-80-column lines quite a lot, and I'm quite sure it's not as rare as you seem to think. Not every text we see in Emacs is necessarily a well-formatted program source.