From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 05:35:28 +0300 Message-ID: <831tqkmwsv.fsf@gnu.org> References: <54193A70.9020901@member.fsf.org> <87wq8pwjen.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <837g0ptnlj.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3yxwdr6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tx3tmi3t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <834mvttgsf.fsf@gnu.org> <87lhp5m99w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h9ztm5oa.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87d2ahm3nw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <871tqneyvl.fsf@netris.org> <87d2a54t1m.fsf@yeeloong.lan> <83lhotme1e.fsf@gnu.org> <871tql17uw.fsf@yeeloong.lan> <838uktm9gw.fsf@gnu.org> <8738b1drzt.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87ppe5cc7j.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1412649367 19066 80.91.229.3 (7 Oct 2014 02:36:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 02:36:07 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 07 04:36:00 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XbKcz-0002yb-27 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2014 04:35:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55817 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XbKcy-0005Zz-Ky for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2014 22:35:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43290) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XbKce-0005Yy-V6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2014 22:35:38 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XbKcZ-0000zM-25 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2014 22:35:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:59064) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XbKcS-0000yE-HV; Mon, 06 Oct 2014 22:35:20 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0ND100H00Y6TGK00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Tue, 07 Oct 2014 05:35:19 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0ND100HVKZ6UH920@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Tue, 07 Oct 2014 05:35:19 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <87ppe5cc7j.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.172 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:175062 Archived-At: > From: David Kastrup > Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 19:58:08 +0200 > > David Kastrup writes: > > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > >> Btw, Emacs doesn't expose the internal representation of these bytes > >> easily to Lisp programs. That is, whenever any program tries to > >> access the character at that position, it gets the original raw byte > >> that was there before the string was read from outside. A Lisp > >> program needs some very tricky and deliberate techniques to access the > >> internal representation of such bytes. (It isn't "overlong", btw, we > >> just represent the 128 bytes as codepoints in the 0x3fffXX range, and > >> encode it in UTF-8 with 5 bytes.) > > > > Oh. Didn't we use 3byte surrogate words (also not valid Unicode but > > encodable as 3 bytes) here? > > Actually, one could even use overlong encodings of 0--127 (to represent > raw bytes 128--255) and use only two bytes that way, but that's really > asking for reencoding trouble. As a matter of fact, we use a 2-byte representation for them. What I wrote above about 5 bytes is incorrect, sorry.