From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 13:10:52 +0300 Message-ID: <831r55f42b.fsf@gnu.org> References: <16338bdc2497fc51c6fb6d54ab370bfb@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <831r59kyhf.fsf@gnu.org> <834ka4k15m.fsf@gnu.org> <83y27gijmz.fsf@gnu.org> <8335pmgnjy.fsf@gnu.org> <604da2cb10ac61f2b8b89a02c89056be@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <87r1d5w7f6.fsf@gnus.org> <8735plyzpw.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19302"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: psainty@orcon.net.nz, acm@muc.de, larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 01 12:12:34 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFWs-0004lW-8j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 12:12:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49586 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFWr-0007z0-1W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:12:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44606) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFVb-00070v-Bn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:11:15 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41252) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFVa-0004l7-QP; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:11:14 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4342 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFVZ-00051i-CI; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:11:13 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8735plyzpw.fsf@gmail.com> (message from =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28g?= =?utf-8?B?VMOhdm9yYQ==?= on Fri, 01 Oct 2021 08:24:27 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275972 Archived-At: > From: João Távora > Cc: Stefan Kangas , Phil Sainty , > Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , Emacs > developers > Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 08:24:27 +0100 > > Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > > > Stefan Kangas writes: > > > >> On a separate note, but related to my misgivings: If this really is > >> mostly about s.el, dash.el and f.el, I think it is problem that this > >> is featured so prominently in the ELisp manual. To my eyes, what we > >> have now is basically an implicit recommendation and a statement that > >> it is unproblematic for general use. I believe there is a clear risk > >> that users will use this feature in ways that many of us AFAIU (from > >> reading this thread) would expressly rather avoid. > > > > Yes, making the manual less enthusiastic about this sounds like a good > > idea to me. > > I don't care, go ahead. Make it less enthusiastic about advice, > function pointers and macros while you're at it. > > But really, if you want to add some sentences about caveats and grep > woes, go ahead, that's reasonable. ...or delete the whole section, as I > said I don't care. Adding caveats and disadvantages to that section, as well as recommendations to use it sparingly etc., is fine by me, but deleting the section is not.