From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: 29.0.60; keymap-local-set and keymap-global-set became less strict Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2023 08:58:19 +0200 Message-ID: <831qn8zh84.fsf@gnu.org> References: <5876987d-2479-f512-5767-218c8c16a909@daniel-mendler.de> <875ycngyji.fsf@gnus.org> <87zg9zvzuc.fsf@gmail.com> <831qna3frm.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt5yogct.fsf@gmail.com> <83y1pi1wz4.fsf@gnu.org> <87ilgmodk4.fsf@gmail.com> <83mt5y1r5u.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkmdo8e4.fsf@gmail.com> <831qn91qo0.fsf@gnu.org> <137753af-777d-2da3-c111-7e2d414633f1@daniel-mendler.de> <83sffpze9h.fsf@gnu.org> <309dee07-e404-4f84-a839-8b99815376f8@daniel-mendler.de> <83mt5xz42d.fsf@gnu.org> <21d9dd07-22f6-03be-1c8b-5d7e4fd1ff80@daniel-mendler.de> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37380"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rpluim@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Daniel Mendler Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 02 07:59:23 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pNTZ5-0009W3-Bb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2023 07:59:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNTY7-0006TG-6u; Thu, 02 Feb 2023 01:58:23 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNTY6-0006T5-GV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2023 01:58:22 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNTY4-0005yv-Na; Thu, 02 Feb 2023 01:58:20 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=eMgR0bobX4m9rD260JheL7gjpQjVyyhxSQtl74buZes=; b=kaTruKZR5hl6 rFIpfCVBP99XAxgf7xjwRU3QG/FaGx+s53lgSzOFoGe6+W3HrJCWpW0bQgteZ1MNsdQPrDYlxPE/K JApggeRbYQRpmxY3kWO1GdxJU80XAnZnEkTl6K1aXgSHBu7lb7q5mDxGBNWCPpMBv6EQRjqtSS2De 6uyalD4U1yezQ+bJLdPoYGhYJ/ZjwAulnnLqzjFCeAFegrF8j9JIhbOXnFhCwzoldWT2/ntkDGT6f bwn/iKTQVj6jnrSeyy4o8p6dMjLBZv1bRrOP0m9TIE4CQWGJPzqn2OyOG01FzVmn50zGNR8TBZ2GM sG6QSsD5ZAIgGWL2gUvVQA==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNTY4-0002FX-13; Thu, 02 Feb 2023 01:58:20 -0500 In-Reply-To: <21d9dd07-22f6-03be-1c8b-5d7e4fd1ff80@daniel-mendler.de> (message from Daniel Mendler on Wed, 1 Feb 2023 23:56:12 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:302890 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2023 23:56:12 +0100 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , rpluim@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Daniel Mendler > > > Emacs is not in the business of imposing The Right Way, instead we > > prefer to encourage it while still allowing people to shoot themselves > > in the foot in all kinds of fun ways. > > Tell that to Eli, who seems to be in the business of preaching The Right > Way and also following it. But preaching is very different from imposing. And I think "do as I say, not as I do" is not a great stance for us (although we sometimes do it). > But that's beside the point - keymap.el is a newly introduced library > with a newly designed API. I would expect that such a library can be > implemented according to the best practices without any kludges - > without `call-interactively-p' and without advertised calling > conventions. That this does not seem to be possible, leaves me > unsatisfied. Well, it would actually be possible, we just have to do it > differently - either allowing vectors as arguments or by using a > different interactive form calling `keymap--read-key`. But these better > solutions were rejected for other reasons. We could go for a different design if we had more time. These functions were introduced just 2.5 months ago, and the problems with them were only brought to our attention very recently. We don't have enough time to switch to using other APIs in the interactive form, as we had bitter experience with doing that in similar cases (subtle bugs and behavior changes that took many moons to uncover and even longer to fix). It's too bad no one tried these new commands earlier and reported the problems back then, but that's water under the bridge. So we don't have the luxury of going for the ideal design. We must choose one of the safe solutions that will not delay the pretest nor endanger its quick success and the following release. I prefer the additional argument method, and it sounds like so does Stefan. So, Robert, please install your last patch, and thanks.