From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Marshall, Simon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [simon.marshall@bogus.example.com: mouse-autoselect-window ne eds a delay] Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:11:09 +0100 Message-ID: <81CCA6588E60BB42BE68BD029ED4826007B77E4E@wimex2.wim.midas-kapiti.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1151485993 5207 80.91.229.2 (28 Jun 2006 09:13:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:13:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "'Emacs Developers \(emacs-devel@gnu.org\)'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 28 11:13:06 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FvW6T-0002U5-Ra for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:12:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FvW6S-0008K2-Ac for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 05:12:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FvW6F-0008JO-PT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 05:12:43 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FvW6D-0008Is-M0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 05:12:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FvW6D-0008Ii-IV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 05:12:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [217.68.146.190] (helo=cluster-b.mailcontrol.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1FvWIV-0002Zw-FO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 05:25:23 -0400 Original-Received: from rly15b.srv.mailcontrol.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by rly15b.srv.mailcontrol.com (MailControl) with ESMTP id k5S9CP2q024192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:12:36 +0100 Original-Received: from submission.mailcontrol.com (submission.mailcontrol.com [212.158.48.250]) by rly15b.srv.mailcontrol.com (MailControl) id k5S9Bsoj023090 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:11:54 +0100 Original-Received: from wimex2.wim.midas-kapiti.com ([217.196.233.101]) by rly15b-eth0.srv.mailcontrol.com (envelope-sender simon.marshall@misys.com) (MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id k5S9BqTh022987; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:11:53 +0100 (BST) Original-Received: by wimex2.wim.midas-kapiti.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:11:11 +0100 Original-To: "'bob@rattlesnake.com'" X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-Scanned-By: MailControl A-07-00-10 (www.mailcontrol.com) on 10.66.1.125 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:56243 Archived-At: > If you have split windows and the lower window selected, how do you move the > mouse from the lower window to the menu or tool bar without window selection > moving to the upper window? > [...] > I just changed my lower window to contain a buffer with a very > different purpose from the upper window. That way is uses a very > different library than the upper window and has different menus on the > menu bar. To get to the menu bar required moving the mouse cursor > outside of Emacs. I have never done that before. (If I were to go to > the menu bar in every day use, I would first `C-x 1' > (delete-other-windows-quietly). That action would be more efficient.) I don't have a problem with you using Emacs how you want to. But, as you state, your usage of the menu bar is to test it not to use it per se. OTOH, I use the menu bar if (a) I happen to be holding the mouse, (b) I can't remember the key binding, or (c) there isn't a key binding. My report was pointing out a problem with mouse-autoselect-window when used with split windows and the menu or tool bar. Given that you don't use the menu or tool bar, ... Anyway, I would find it quite obscure and "inefficient" (to use your word) to have to do C-x 1 in the window before I used the menu bar. I would rather Emacs not require my usage to be different for a command invoked via a key vs via the menu or tool bar. And the result of C-x 1 would be different from what I had wanted. > Moving the mouse cursor outside of Emacs rather than `C-x 1' > (delete-other-windows-quietly) is clearly inefficent. But then, so is > any action with the menu bar since it means taking your fingers off > the keyboard for an irrelevant reason. I think this belongs to a different discussion, not in response to a bug report! > (I can only achieve this by moving out of the Emacs frame and then into the > Emacs frame at the Emacs menu or tool bar. And that is much easier if my WM > implements a delay for WM focus-follows-mouse, otherwise WM raise-on-focus > would cause any other window behind the Emacs frame to be raised above the > Emacs frame immediately!) > That is true: if you take your hands off the keyboard, grab the mouse, > move the mouse cursor over another Emacs window to a bar, and if you > do not `C-x 1' (delete-other-windows-quietly), and you do not use > auto-raise much elsewhere, then to keep your first window you need a > delay. > It seems very unlikely that anyone would act so inefficently once they > learn to be efficient, but people are strange. I see no reason not to > permit such inefficiency, but the default should be `immediate > auto-raise' and a presumption that the user is trying to use his or > her life well. Otherwise, the Emacs developers would be highly > insulting. Are you seriously suggesting that I am inefficient and/or strange?