From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_Dj=E4rv?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs on OS X development Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 22:46:49 +0200 Message-ID: <80ACEDD7-86B4-4E7D-85F2-4308AB34837B@swipnet.se> References: <87r4s68rr4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83A41E83-79C8-4490-966B-CD224041E840@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1343076423 29127 80.91.229.3 (23 Jul 2012 20:47:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 20:47:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "John Wiegley" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 23 22:47:03 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1StPWw-0000V5-4L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 22:47:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46429 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1StPWv-0003aB-HR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:47:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56620) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1StPWs-0003a5-Qo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:46:59 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1StPWr-0008NS-Da for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:46:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mailout.melmac.se ([62.20.26.67]:49023) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1StPWr-0008ND-1z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:46:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mail01.melmac.se (mail01.melmac.se [62.20.26.80]) by mailout.melmac.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 750EC9AAF for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 22:46:52 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: (qmail 5553 invoked by uid 89); 23 Jul 2012 20:46:44 -0000 Original-Received: from h-46-59-42-18.na.cust.bahnhof.se (HELO coolsville.localdomain) (boel.djarv@bdtv.se@46.59.42.18) by mail01.melmac.se with ESMTPA; 23 Jul 2012 20:46:44 -0000 Original-Received: from anon-169-193.vpn.ipredator.se (anon-169-193.vpn.ipredator.se [93.182.169.193]) by coolsville.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 983AB7FA06C; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 22:46:51 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-Received-From: 62.20.26.67 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:151824 Archived-At: Hello. 23 jul 2012 kl. 21:45 skrev John Wiegley: >>>>>> Stefan Monnier writes: >=20 >> None of that is inherent, i.e. it can all be fixed without having to = use a >> different API. So we need to someone to step up to the plate and = provide >> patches. >=20 > We have an existing body of code that it seems no one is excited to = maintain, > and a fork that at least one person is very eager to maintain. Bugs do get fixed in the NS port. I use it on OSX every weekday (at = work), so I try to fix bugs. Others do too from time to time. In the = last 6 months or so, I'd say that the NS port has gotten as much = attention as the Gtk+ port. Granted that the NS-port may have had more = problems to begin with. >=20 > Is the correct answer to say that we're not moving forward until = someone gains > interest in something currently unexciting? Or should we migrate to a > code-base where we have a guaranteed active developer? It depends on what you mean by moving forwards. As has been stated, = many people use the NS port (myself included) without the problems = others seem to have. I have tried hard to come up with a crash or a = display corruption, but so far failed, with the exception of 11484. But = I haven't have time to fix that yet. =20 It may seem to you as nothing is done about the problems you face, but = so far nobody has been able to come up with a single case that is = reproducable by someone that may fix ns-port bugs. Not even 11541, = 11684 or 11792 craches for me, and I have tried all sorts of compiler = and configuration options. > Waiting until NS finds its star developer does not seem like a real = strategy > to me -- unless you don't have a problem with NS currently. But this = is a > genuine issue for many of us. It prevents me, personally, from = following > trunk and providing fixes/bug reports relative to trunk. I don't see how seeing a bug in the NS-port stops you from providing a = fix to that bug. >=20 > Can everyone who has issues with NS please help by gathering data = about your > environment and use cases? The problems I have manifest even with -Q. = I > build as follows: >=20 > configure --with-ns --enable-checking --enable-check-lisp-object-type > --prefix=3D$INSTALL_DIR CC=3Dclang CXX=3Dclang++ LD=3Dclang > CFLAGS=3D'-g -O0 -fno-omit-frame-pointer' > LDFLAGS=3D"$CFLAGS" >=20 > I then change my font to: >=20 > "-*-Courier-normal-normal-normal-*-15-*-*-*-m-0-iso10646-1" How do you set this font? In .emacs, in default-frame-alist, via = customize, via the font dialog? Locale and system language probably also has something to do with the = problems. Does compiling emacs with just --with-ns give you any different results = (w.r.t. craches as in 11541, 11684 or 11792 , the slowdown below will = presist)? >=20 > When in a scratch buffer, if I enable flyspell-mode, I can type fast = enough > that Emacs can't insert the characters as quickly as I can type. >=20 This is a known issue, partly to do with how the event loop is = implemented. A smarter loop doubles the speed, but it is still slower = than say X. Jan D.