From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Mathias Dahl" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suggestion for C-t (transpose-chars) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:30:18 +0200 Message-ID: <7dbe73ed0707200330k6eb5abc3wbcbb254addaacc2b@mail.gmail.com> References: <87lkdbl8az.fsf@debby.local.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1184927858 30383 80.91.229.12 (20 Jul 2007 10:37:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:37:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Dieter Wilhelm" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 20 12:37:36 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IBprZ-0001Lf-CI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:37:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IBprY-0005rF-UM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2007 06:37:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IBprU-0005mY-2O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2007 06:37:28 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IBprT-0005kj-4V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2007 06:37:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IBprS-0005kZ-VE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2007 06:37:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mu-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.134.184]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IBprS-0004cd-JJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2007 06:37:26 -0400 Original-Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id g7so964800muf for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2007 03:37:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=k9G5Mw/i5I72NsIVx0L3M/Fsuy3wnOXpM4lezXChXVWRu5j7kM4TEPEECCxq0JZWthcHoOqITXacsszBh1P5Gf+qlygERBUbQi0BUxmTLgukbJjRUYv9p4D5vYMs+bzxiFaauKKnRBYx5p5a1HQtUW4k05Bk0eeDfN2Nty8EJu0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=C7KHuZAgwGt/dqH2l5jp5+4shdmLMj9dpRyK5oeihBrp32e5ShntAiC4CtTegPsdCH7ijtERisR2ABS2ge2/fKMv6CUBDqtU/ayZgw0wWNYDb90pzKiLTPapT7rZtH/bDoqX7iyobYZNKhyobPy33N2HZ3SQuo5HvArims7Fayk= Original-Received: by 10.82.158.12 with SMTP id g12mr260128bue.1184927418587; Fri, 20 Jul 2007 03:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.82.117.9 with HTTP; Fri, 20 Jul 2007 03:30:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87lkdbl8az.fsf@debby.local.net> Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:75172 Archived-At: > With a prefix argument ARG C-t allows to *drag* a character ARG > characters away. Even though the respective code is impressively > elegant I think it would be more helpful when one could *transpose* > two characters ARG characters away from point! I am totally impressed that people use these commands! I suspect it takes quite a while getting into the habit and actually do this, instead of simply DEL DEL DEL ... and retype. I am even more impressed when thinking about there being people that even used the prefix arg to this command. Wow! What brain power it must have taken to get that habituized. At tops at would use the occacional C-t after misspelling `the' as `teh'. As you might suspect I don't use this command much, so take my opinion lightly, but I do agree that what Dieter suggests sound more useful than the current behavior. Also, in hope that I can learn as well, I would love to hear about in which scenarios people end up using this. > I guess this would also be helpful for non-touch-typists. Isn't it > the case that one confuses only the sequence of two *neighbouring* > characters and realises that very often after typing one or two > additional ones? I find myself often typing C-b, C-b, C-t and C-e. > With the suggested change it would save 4 keystrokes (C-2 and C-t). A comment about counting keys like this, I think it is misleading to count that as 4 keystrokes, typing the same key twice is in my opinion much easier than moving the fingers to type another one so I think it should count as 3, or maybe 3.2... :) Also, and this is a very uninformed opinion from one that have been touch typing (still learning) for some months, but isn't the `t' slightly easier to type than the `2', even more reducing the win? Anyway, I just wanted to present some counter-arguments, maybe not even good ones. :) Still, I agree that the proposed behavior sounds more useful than the current one. /Mathias