From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Mathias Dahl" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Info tutorial is out of date Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:28:20 +0200 Message-ID: <7dbe73ed0607161528x72e81c17yce004af20ae00c8e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060716090816.GA1167@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1153088944 2648 80.91.229.2 (16 Jul 2006 22:29:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:29:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs-Devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 17 00:29:03 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2F6j-0004NS-2I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:29:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2F6i-0002Tc-DZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:29:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2F69-0001yX-2S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:28:25 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2F66-0001uf-7P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:28:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2F65-0001uP-Sh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:28:22 -0400 Original-Received: from [64.233.182.186] (helo=nf-out-0910.google.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1G2F8c-0006O7-HU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:30:58 -0400 Original-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l24so641142nfc for ; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:28:20 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=b6Iwt8xVg4/Q4r7FYWthBz/HDkiXYhGYGh7bEbhHCvPkAiTZxnjlzbqOcrkWyIF+h0VqW32su6sgCptt370K/xUnQc3TMyFow7dZDhFR5tjw1LtmX4EdUwQi8MjopuyADQT90iGSkOMQT1jAMBQgl8mAwhBPVAc+OPWkdhNjsnA= Original-Received: by 10.48.42.1 with SMTP id p1mr1445737nfp; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.48.248.13 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Original-To: "Drew Adams" In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:57127 Archived-At: > ~zero about the ideas in my post for improving the > tutorial. IOW, their own anti-mouse button got pushed somehow, and any real > debate on the ideas I raised was drowned. I agree. Most answers has been about technicalities and not the main issue, to get new users to learn how to use Emacs. I have been evangelizing for six years now and let me tell you, it's not easy. *I* know that it is worth getting over the hurdle that many people hit when they first try Emacs. I actually don't remember what kept *me*, an old Windoze user, hanging in there. probably it was a combination of GNU-philosophy and the overall "strangness" of Emacs (I tend to want to try "strange" things or things other don't like). And of course keyboard macros from heaven! :) At work I am trying to see if I can lure the less technical of our staff, the Technial Writers (sounds techy, but it is not), to use Emacs. My plan is to push hard for things like abbrevs, skeletons and other "auto typing" facilities.