From: "Clément Pit-Claudel" <cpitclaudel@gmail.com>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: A combination of defmacro, functionp, and quoted lambdas yields different results on consecutive evaluations
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 09:32:27 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <7cf85a31-89c6-dd6e-f902-9279baae2b37@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwv1sh77jxs.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
On 2018-02-26 12:31, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> Is that actually a usable criterion? Any macro can quote or unquote its
>> argument, right?
>
> Everything can happen, indeed. But usually a macro which takes a code
> argument and puts it within a quote is perceived as a problem: e.g. it
> tends to very quickly annoy its users because they can't refer to
> lexically-scoped arguments any more. Admittedly, for
> with-eval-after-load this is not very problematic because it's unusual
> to have with-eval-after-load elsewhere than at top-level, so making code
> like:
>
> (let ((x 1))
> (with-eval-after-load FOO
> (message "%S" x)))
>
> work correctly is not nearly as important as it is for many other macros.
Thanks, this is a good point, which I hadn't considered.
It's not obvious to me, however, which one is more important: make something like
(with-eval-after-load 'flycheck
(flycheck-define-checker …))
work, or ensuring that with-eval-after-load can be used to capture lexical variables.
One of the issues to consider is that the usual fix of (require)-ing — or (require-when-compile)-ing — the package that defines the macro isn't satisfactory in this case, since with-eval-after-load is used to run code *after* the package is loaded. And, since eval-when-compile now behaves the same way, there doesn't seem to be a user-friendly way at the moment to delay the execution a bit of code that includes macros until these macros are available.
Btw, autoloading these macros wouldn't fix this, right?
>> For example, the problem that I described about with-eval-after-load
>> also happens with eval-after-load, yet the argument to that is quoted.
>
> [ I was wondering when someone would notice. ]
>
> Indeed, when I introduced `with-eval-after-load` and I also changed
> `eval-after-load` by adding a compiler macro which turns
>
> (eval-after-load FOO 'BAR)
> into
> (eval-after-load FOO `(,(lambda () BAR)))
>
> so that BAR can be properly eagerly macro-expanded, so the
> byte-compiler can look at BAR and emit warnings about it,
That makes sense, but it also has high rates of false positives; writing the following warns on foo-x:
(eval-after-load 'foo
'(setq foo-x 1))
… regardless f whether `foo' defines `foo-x'.
> Here's the kind of thing I had in mind (can't think of any concrete
> example for it, tho, the motivation came from such cases in defadvice
> and interactive forms instead, which had the same problem is keeping
> code quoted thus preventing compilation and eager macroexpansion):
>
> (eval-when-compile (require 'cl))
> (eval-after-load FOO '(flet ...))
I see. Tricky.
> There are a few other places where we "undo" a quote, as in
>
> (mapcar '(lambda ...) ...)
>
> These were all done because it seemed to be beneficial more often than
> it is harmful. I must admit that I wasn't 100% sure that "unquoting"
> its arg was "more often beneficial", tho the fact that I haven't heard
> anyone even mention this until now seems to argue that even tho it's
> maybe not "more often beneficial" at least not often harmful.
I think we've had that particular issue for a while in Flycheck — it's just that we didn't understand it until fairly recently. It pops up when people put stuff in their use-package configuration, in particular.
Clément.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-02-28 14:32 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 31+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-02-17 16:04 A combination of defmacro, functionp, and quoted lambdas yields different results on consecutive evaluations Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-17 21:58 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-18 15:17 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-18 18:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-25 18:09 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-26 3:18 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-26 5:40 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-26 13:11 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-26 15:20 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-26 16:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-26 16:38 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-26 17:08 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-26 17:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-28 14:32 ` Clément Pit-Claudel [this message]
2018-02-28 16:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-26 17:01 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-26 17:13 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-26 17:32 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-26 17:40 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-03-01 0:50 ` Radon Rosborough
2018-02-27 21:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-28 12:44 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-02-28 13:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-28 14:26 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-28 23:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-26 13:13 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-26 15:20 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-26 16:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-26 16:37 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-02-26 17:15 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-26 17:38 ` Stefan Monnier
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