From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Introducing thread-safe Tramp Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 08:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7c28f9d8-e2bb-4778-ab92-92707f12718f@default> References: <8736wa9c5s.fsf@gmx.de> <87wotkn6do.fsf@gmx.de> <874lgn8x6l.fsf@gmx.de> <87sh44pisz.fsf@gmx.de> <87a7qbitc7.fsf@gmx.de> <878t5tdsfc.fsf@gmx.de> <83wotcpzub.fsf@gnu.org> <87bmaiuwml.fsf@gmx.de> <877el6uwio.fsf@gmx.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1533397268 18324 195.159.176.226 (4 Aug 2018 15:41:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 15:41:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: fgunbin@fastmail.fm, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Michael Albinus , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 04 17:41:03 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1flyfv-0004fN-Df for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2018 17:41:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55383 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1flyi2-0002W1-1B for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2018 11:43:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57001) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1flyhr-0002Vs-Un for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2018 11:43:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1flyhq-0001nJ-Sl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2018 11:43:04 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:48890) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1flyhm-0001ib-Sd; Sat, 04 Aug 2018 11:42:59 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w74FdPbK093669; Sat, 4 Aug 2018 15:42:51 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=UYAzBNF65xwWSLqM+0bZLLUpMDMtVTs+7S5ZLjrOewk=; b=Y9cvxKHJMRNgo6tppzpMIf3NrKHQjSZborjhi58REJqXoo/2QmF9CiLSGogmDNawJuhI Y0/koyPZPZAhECwECAdXnuGVm6DEDYucRTqSu94kf35w9fZ3hgk5VrBM6515NT512INR EjL1iHa4SF+iBa8afUyAIy9NOQ4y/2PnmAE/RlwRW262t4YxjvKA5RkP5XNo19Wxg8hE vbAhq5Kw9Kir832Eff4nfIfJlt41cAFWJkQYBO0gknIoH7tGST3ezrNBYj0wia0ms3wf tUfBjKFCxBNNBgHQ+MEsUb+ESzWPKc5YqBjf+VoLgacmxBWFzQmNfdmxndLC3OcmDVL0 +Q== Original-Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2kn3jss0n4-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 04 Aug 2018 15:42:51 +0000 Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w74FgoQS004287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Aug 2018 15:42:51 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w74FgoY0020759; Sat, 4 Aug 2018 15:42:50 GMT In-Reply-To: <877el6uwio.fsf@gmx.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4717.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8974 signatures=668707 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=18 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1808040173 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.86 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:228158 Archived-At: Hm; interesting. Not sure I've seen this kind of thing before. I don't really think we should call `C-x &' here a "prefix argument", in an= y case. For one thing, that muddies the waters for each other time we talk = about "prefix argument".=20 Not sure how we should talk about this. It's kind of like a prefix key, bu= t its binding is not a keymap but a command that reads a key sequence and i= nvokes that key's command with particular variable binding in effect.=20 A command that dispatches to other commands, perhaps binding controlling va= riables is an old idea. But in this case you've made use of reading a secon= d key sequence, with its own prefix arg, and involved that with the dispatc= hing logic. If we're going to do this then it really invites generalization, or at leas= t copycat uses with other such kinda-prefix-keys. The handling of a subsequ= ent prefix arg (for the followup command), in particular, seems something g= enerally useful. And then there's the possibility of, say, using a prefix arg with `C-x &' i= tself - to do whatever (temporarily turn on a mode, enabling a given keymap= for control of the followup key reading,...). Lots of crazy possibilities. What's the real reason for doing this, as the answer to the question of how= to provide keys for async file commands?=20 We will now have the variable, which users can set to get or not get async = behavior for file commands by default. I questioned whether we should "spen= d" a prefix argument on flipping the variable value during the use of a par= ticular command. And you pointed out that some commands that we want to be = able to give asyncness already use a prefix arg for other things. So using = a normal prefix arg was apparently dropped. (Thank you for that.) But is this the best way to offer users commands/keys that provide both syn= c and async file commands?=20 I suggested just duplicating the existing commands, which lets users themse= lves define any number of commands that combine pairs of sync/async command= s, e.g., letting a prefix arg decide the behavior (one way or the other). E= .g., a user can define a `my-find-file' command that uses a prefix arg to d= o sync/async, and s?he can remap `find-file' to that. If necessary, Emacs could provide such sync/async pair commands for some or= all of the file commands, so users don't need to define them (not that tha= t's hard to do). But should such new commands usurp the keys of the standar= d commands now, or should we just (for now, at least) let users remap as de= sired? Not sure what to think about the `C-x &' proposal. It certainly is interest= ing, though - seems even generally promising. We've never taken such an app= roach before, have we (dunno)? Is there a new need? Or is this discovery of= a helpful, general new feature? Seems like the latter. (Could be both.) Pe= rhaps this deserves some new terminology and general doc. (Someone will probably point out that this is nothing special/new, and that= I just haven't had enough coffee this morning...)