From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Adrien Brochard Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2020 22:40:04 -0400 Message-ID: <7c099c52-3350-8b49-742c-bf9d351c620f@gmx.com> References: <30addebe-999b-c1cc-a8d8-27aba3fac566@gmx.com> <4a1188f8-9864-54c0-ae6f-5f32102d9757@gmx.com> <5f153065-6e26-424e-65e1-17232a580990@gmx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10083"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.3.1 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams , rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 10 04:46:27 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kR4tv-0002Xx-AE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 10 Oct 2020 04:46:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42778 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kR4tt-0006zW-F2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 09 Oct 2020 22:46:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59390) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kR4nw-00064n-Jh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Oct 2020 22:40:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:44349) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kR4nt-000847-HV; Fri, 09 Oct 2020 22:40:16 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1602297606; bh=BwX5A2AvEk/t+8ftIyGjx/N4G7ue7NO7PTjgKPOS3OE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=UB9w9AHHLdCgeERErZxlGYzLRVwjoHVH899TkscYOnnoVGz8EclJaAZywUG12+ymZ vSwqJorTQNYBWPOSvxdbBui1tDCsKJkO6Igq2+gy0fbNJkwusATet2QhUyovPZLLWT iNZSpefAlfzPhzCoB8sVS01Y7C4cHNRiUSjqu5RE= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [192.168.1.178] ([96.246.99.76]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MysRu-1kEcC72tvu-00vtG2; Sat, 10 Oct 2020 04:40:05 +0200 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:dNvtVtQ1zrCCJRWEJRDV5dweLKjI/krCbUnhOoToEpDDPE6m9C1 wbs9WRDdkyuvZC4+NTLGRbAptOEbFjAc2bh09JpmMSkVDGiosdiiu5aTyfmZqWROFbFkPtc fwsZKVZymdXm5FCEdqTxh5iQ62EuFnITVTi9nXq+gEJnLtszGBfyyvYTu9ENhmnHm2aye6O agamS3wGMouQqwUvJu9xQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:LsG0Fu66FOA=:1oYOPbpAIsHIRWBV1WKe4i gCwVHeTnKle2DrZ1XuUkDA9sgG3uUa5Haq8fAFPOCPRmwmTvoX5Z95tyKxAhJ2UQ8iG5Qrerp c0x8uBcmrEJMkwqoTxLTdpFfao07gOHsKnatAoqLXWg7y1XLiI0tK4abjsO6qfbGp5xZqqkLk DmIDu2OhtGZ1HFMC5fXwkGCzCR5mOz8DhQh7p2lX27CT8FW/+uJvs1GQMcMndDmXwifhz8xJi kb3q9OEb9sPKndw4GzO7Zlch50LW4Z0QffnYAAF8x6eXHPWRrOzRwiOuJ5GMnfJ9FwNR7y1DO eWMSH4miLMfk2hsUcwnSHiXLrrfPtIVD5JrAMRl/4XEevjK67GFL+7kaXDlm9Jc9BQY3WCYfl ySKhsW9Zz2LNsFGeB9SiBxGBQDgh71nL42DO8Hv/ZS/NPyRurKwiLx/v3XE4mmmnx80U3wic2 Ge6G1s9+4BADIIMDqPyvwo640YZBfQ2rM1vkgJrxpv/KBH0e4IMs396kFY4RKzQVjTIefwBwo fQoW8Hr8ORnzVmiVQUf/fkQPtW3jBr9eO7AO4TTWp4iK1gNTjniZjo2MfXCIw9iaCwboCJZRc eOQFhjoZqCe/SHi/4iGQFi7RLqDm7hub0UojvXIWYvfQ9CAihdsJuVdsej4Cj60pyRTf7Ivps Mkay4OVW4NeIG+OaV4n6zKZ6jijD3qGtiicoqGL9OItLy2dBxFArQZazwoJFXy3MjQQta79RB kp+BaicuXnXw2cZ3yLk33j9NyGVvPm1eP3dN7QvasoXx6szngy6Kf0RKr8C36Ozbi8zb4XnF Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.20; envelope-from=abrochard@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/09 22:40:10 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.208, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257293 Archived-At: >>> As a start, lose all of the multiple choices. >>> Just have open questions, letting users say >>> what they do/use/prefer, etc. >>> >>> The multiple choices, even with an "other", >>> bias the results. >> >> How does it bias results exactly? > > Suggestions of what is possible. > > My suggestion is to just leave the questions open, > and let people express themselves however they > think best, rather than being incited to choose > among suggested alternatives. > > Just a suggestion. I understand what you are suggesting, but I do not understand the "bias the results" you are referring to. > Higher completion rate and specific answers can > mean little, compared to thoughtful responses. > Emacs has always preferred the latter. > > And explicitly solicit reasons - everywhere. > Reasons can be important for guiding decisions here. How about having a "why" optional free-text section after each non-factual multiple choice question? Like "which package manager do you use? and why?" or "What are some of your favorite packages and why?" I also could argue that if you present a paragraph input to users, only those with the time and energy will make the effort to write a comprehensive answer, which might create a real bias. On the other hand, if more people can emit their preference for a particular option, you do not know why, but you know where to start looking for why. You do point out something very real: the survey questions are mixing facts with opinions. We are asking factual things, along with general opinions on the state of things. There's obviously a trade-off to make between the two. Factual gives us quick results but without reason. Open ended decreases the response rate and increases the analysis time, but opens for more meaningful answers.