From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Bozhidar Batsov" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New Package for NonGNU-ELPA: clojure-ts-mode Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2023 20:41:18 +0300 Message-ID: <7c043b4f-3cac-49f0-8d36-f09e1edeec02@app.fastmail.com> References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmxj27fn.fsf@dfreeman.email> <831qfrptiq.fsf@gnu.org> <57429221-d9be-5791-e975-b3539905e2f6@gutov.dev> <83a5udlj47.fsf@gnu.org> <87a5udk1co.fsf@posteo.net> <835y51kslv.fsf@gnu.org> <7a82c524-1aa1-e755-e377-673ebb107a44@gutov.dev> <83r0nok8s4.fsf@gnu.org> <87il90znco.fsf@yahoo.com> <1977fbef-307b-bcf4-9448-64f26916dd65@gutov.dev> <87edjozlqq.fsf@yahoo.com> <43ddad10-49dd-1c49-ebfe-51689780b315@gutov.dev> <87msyciplu.fsf@posteo.net> <83h6okk3oe.fsf@gnu.org> <87edjoindn.fsf@posteo.net> <83bkesjwuk.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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Sun, 27 Aug 2023 13:41:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.27; envelope-from=bozhidar@batsov.dev; helo=out3-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309359 Archived-At: --b0520f378aaf40b896845a5d312d7542 Content-Type: text/plain With all the off-topic messages I missed the one saying that the package is now live on NonGNU ELPA, so you can ignore the last paragraph of my previous message. On Sun, Aug 27, 2023, at 8:38 PM, Bozhidar Batsov wrote: > I believe this conversation has drifted a lot from the original topic (clojure-ts-mode). I have to say I'm a bit frustrated that every time someone wants to submit something to NonGNU ELPA there's some push to either submit to GNU ELPA or core instead. I've been maintaining almost all of the Clojure dev tooling for Emacs for over a decade, so I do believe that by now I know what I'm doing and how I want to do things. I've said a million times by now that I don't want contributors to have to deal with copyright agreements and with quirks/oddities in the Emacs development process. I believe that the maintainers who actually work on something should be allowed to decide how their projects get developed. > > > All the other Clojure modes are on NonGNU ELPA already (clojure-mode, CIDER, inf-clojure, etc), so let's avoid philosophical discussions about the merits of X, Y and Z and just get this done, please. > > On Sun, Aug 27, 2023, at 7:04 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > From: Philip Kaludercic >> > Cc: dmitry@gutov.dev, luangruo@yahoo.com, danny@dfreeman.email, >> > stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, >> > manuel.uberti@inventati.org >> > Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2023 14:13:56 +0000 >> > >> > Eli Zaretskii writes: >> > >> > >> From: Philip Kaludercic >> > >> Cc: Po Lu , Eli Zaretskii , >> > >> danny@dfreeman.email, stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, >> > >> manuel.uberti@inventati.org >> > >> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2023 13:25:49 +0000 >> > >> >> > >> BTW. what is the current system by which releases are cut? I don't know >> > >> if the maintainers have a schedule or some general plan for internal >> > >> usage. >> > > >> > > I don't know how to answer this. >> > >> > How did you decide when to draw the line between Emacs 29 and Emacs 30? >> >> That's when the release branch is cut. But doing so doesn't determine >> the future release date, except very roughly. >> >> When to cut the release branch is up to the maintainers, and IME the >> reasons are not fixed. The mount of new features and the time since >> the last major release are important factors, though. >> >> > > And why should we take them into account, and not the >> > > other way around? I have never seen a Debian (or any other distro) >> > > approach us asking when the next release is expected. >> > >> > That is true, but I don't see any reason why there shouldn't be any >> > cooperation. >> >> Neither do I, but cooperation is a two-way street. >> >> There's also a problem that we rarely can promise a certain release >> date, because there are factors out of our control, such as the bugs >> and regressions reported during pretest, the resources that can >> dwindle due to "Real Life", etc. >> >> > --b0520f378aaf40b896845a5d312d7542 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
With all t= he off-topic messages I missed the one saying that the package is now li= ve on NonGNU ELPA, so you can ignore the last paragraph of my previous m= essage.

On Sun, Aug 27, 2023, at 8:38 PM, = Bozhidar Batsov wrote:
I believe this conversation has drifted a lot from the origi= nal topic (clojure-ts-mode). I have to say I'm a bit frustrated that eve= ry time someone wants to submit something to NonGNU ELPA there's some pu= sh to either submit to GNU ELPA or core instead. I've been maintaining a= lmost all of the Clojure dev tooling for Emacs for over a decade, so I d= o believe that by now I know what I'm doing and how I want to do things.= I've said a million times by now that I don't want contributors to have= to deal with copyright agreements and with quirks/oddities in the Emacs= development process. I believe that the maintainers who actually work o= n something should be allowed to decide how their projects get developed= .


All the other C= lojure modes are on NonGNU ELPA already (clojure-mode, CIDER, inf-clojur= e, etc), so let's avoid philosophical discussions about the merits of X,= Y and Z and just get this done, please.

On= Sun, Aug 27, 2023, at 7:04 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> From: Philip Kaluderci= c <philipk@posteo.net>
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2023 14:13= :56 +0000
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <= eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net>
=
> >> Cc: Po Lu <l= uangruo@yahoo.com>,  Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,
> >>   manuel.uberti@inventati.org
> >> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2023 13:25:49 +0000
= > >> 
> >> BTW. what is the current= system by which releases are cut?  I don't know
>= >> if the maintainers have a schedule or some general plan for in= ternal
> >> usage.
> >
> > I don't know how to answer this.
>&nb= sp;
> How did you decide when to draw the line between = Emacs 29 and Emacs 30?

That's when the rele= ase branch is cut.  But doing so doesn't determine
th= e future release date, except very roughly.

When to cut the release branch is up to the maintainers, and IME the
reasons are not fixed.  The mount of new features and t= he time since
the last major release are important factors= , though.

> >    =           And why should we= take them into account, and not the
> > other way a= round?  I have never seen a Debian (or any other distro)
<= div>> > approach us asking when the next release is expected.
<= /div>
> 
> That is true, but I don't see an= y reason why there shouldn't be any
> cooperation.
<= /div>

Neither do I, but cooperation is a two-way stre= et.

There's also a problem that we rarely c= an promise a certain release
date, because there are facto= rs out of our control, such as the bugs
and regressions re= ported during pretest, the resources that can
dwindle due = to "Real Life", etc.




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