From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Interoperation between package managers Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 17:31:14 +0300 Message-ID: <7bb8c352-c720-8f27-297d-9fed49df56ce@gmail.com> References: <5e6faf18-5ace-80a4-9508-c723fedcbca4@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1503671529 13548 195.159.176.226 (25 Aug 2017 14:32:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 14:32:09 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 Cc: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Radon Rosborough Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 25 16:32:04 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dlFeW-0003GH-6g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 16:32:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53576 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dlFec-00074y-VF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 10:32:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33376) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dlFdt-00074h-AE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 10:31:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dlFdo-0007aZ-9q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 10:31:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x232.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::232]:36556) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dlFdo-0007aG-2I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 10:31:20 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-x232.google.com with SMTP id z130so10580579lff.3 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:31:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=57nFuiDWfrqtZzxwcXVVUNAbPmwldVVGR8lf2MYKsQE=; b=VmOQTIe8OJQB1XlDPqe4cWSBuzTB5AkKRLICGJj2OjIWxd04W1nwtJdyo2IEyPTW8V HOPGUwBx5xXk4VJ7tejCi3CXiRegyokyFmothBRkERDozqkim9QGp17CQzl2U4zK83tb KYTKmM3xcTB2d34uu+4V2c0FQi0kSqMprZumSL6j1MEKhYFSR7GUYBheCAP0g1VdXP1z arf2/qtKocIXXN+G7C0/KGIA2dWyinGf3QJ2kmqoUf9X9hnQWR+sLtWpEeHcywDemDne 1rch+RBA42R/OnqYHOMvcfGj0VJvdE8/nqYnAWhPJBEldMcjsRiV5zaYHIMVGW+3+gAN erJg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=57nFuiDWfrqtZzxwcXVVUNAbPmwldVVGR8lf2MYKsQE=; b=QZXrO+vh5/F5yAkH/QMtTgJtQj0O5bhkUFY94RtFR2PO8nLVSYHtrMQ0O5gfGDUIfK 9EihS5eAZ1KBBYE9gGEAh1Z7faV+ziAwTImw3DQS6Rq5hS/D8YIBeMTXj8kCMhqVViVW kmR64uZQgYgCg5fDqfkzouXtqFKxFYmrcVUjaU5NY3ySY+aqfh7CqJqZA6XzHtdyxpAi 2tBwGHBVMLckV79huI7DOR6rH8u45a8aC7sSj8dOiI9nul9EQDZjnIxkj8NmtHGDSohi /erGJsxYqC+45zwGd3sJyLJOlcIZXu3ShJ8SdTgIGZgKhuJGXpHL6QUz7MJGM1uBzjqY 8sNw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5hLEUrU3wiNznz7h9wwgeJEmrrXVZ6P+E0CZR1anauq6UNDVSsJ fcXEFc/ZdhSWvMFSMYo= X-Received: by 10.46.92.137 with SMTP id q131mr4010988ljb.102.1503671478344; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.199.6] (broadband-95-84-209-126.moscow.rt.ru. [95.84.209.126]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l13sm1102053lfi.84.2017.08.25.07.31.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:31:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c07::232 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217813 Archived-At: > > Why not just say it is the responsibility of the package manager to > let the user say which packages it is to make available and which > packages it is to leave for another package manager? With a properly structured API there would be no difference between a function provided by a package manager and something you just hacked together. As such this question would be left to the user. An advantage for having it on this level would be that you can do such configuration in a uniform way regardless of the package manager you use. > Would this require a restructuring of how autoloading works in > general? Yes, seems like it would require restructuring autoloading, but the change would probably be backwards compatible. > Another thing I worry about is whether this is the right abstraction > for package managers that operate in different ways than package.el. I don't see how it wouldn't be. We're asking "hey, can anyone load cool.el?" Package.el would answer no, since cool.el is not installed, straight.el would answer yes. And if it decides to download cool.el, it's entirely a decision left to it and how it's configured. This of course opens a possible attack angle of me having (require 'malevolent-el) somewhere in my legit code. -- Best Regards, Nikolay Kudryavtsev