From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 09:34:34 -0400 Message-ID: <7E55057D-6CD9-4E0F-80DC-913DD8DE92A7@dancol.org> References: <7133BE83-064B-43A4-A193-61376605222C@dancol.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6481"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android Cc: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie , Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 23 15:35:05 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sLNN3-0001Tx-6Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:35:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLNMj-0002ws-Ig; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 09:34:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLNMh-0002wf-PL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 09:34:44 -0400 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01:e000:3d8::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLNMf-0005GN-VU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 09:34:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:CC:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=GPavlq3cKrd92pkCeffCbdDIFfkg9Umx5T5/N0Pvax4=; b=naqthqqyIDwaTw4GUM7TdT5kqQ NKdz0iemntkX9xq6XlzNVHMrV21Tjt7qic1vK9THWCLkjyviuQYSvy9Nocwx8yAEZcB4kG9FwFZPp aBbiCF1DTpRWzDabgD+DRQVXRzESJ0HS0/LslPfGHENf/klyHea2SOqDb8J5rphm7s6T+bpW52yUG CgfdrlTzAF9KBSFOtsko3BugBfttFvlkJw661ZNiDqibFsMoirMxUMbLZyGKZ8sBkcCoz9d21WiVN vLarNiFzfHZZPNtGBIL4eGRGd8cPIgRTn5BTUchbHSJJqF9Wrk6vBXN1d6CJD/iCyhy6Gz4YDJ3NM zUopJNpw==; Original-Received: from 2603-9001-4203-1ab2-44c9-c16c-aa21-95a3.inf6.spectrum.com ([2603:9001:4203:1ab2:44c9:c16c:aa21:95a3]:47850 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1sLNMZ-0004kX-KQ; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 09:34:35 -0400 In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2600:3c01:e000:3d8::1; envelope-from=dancol@dancol.org; helo=dancol.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320521 Archived-At: On June 23, 2024 9:29:21 AM EDT, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >Hello, Stefan=2E > >On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 05:30:32 -0700, Stefan Kangas wrote: >> Alan Mackenzie writes: > >> > As I said, C-x 4 are convenient to you for windmove >> > commands=2E They'll be convenient to other users for other commands = in >> > just the same way=2E You're proposing imposing your setup on everybo= dy=2E >> > I'm against this=2E > >> I think "imposing" is overstating the case, given that anyone can >> easily unbind or rebind keybindings they don't like=2E > >Maybe=2E The post I was responding to didn't consist entirely of nuanced >reasoned argument either=2E > >I also think "=2E=2E=2E can easily unbind or rebind keybindings =2E=2E=2E= " is also >an exaggeration=2E It can be done, yes, by somebody who knows how, but >finding where to unbind them and how is more than just a few minutes >work for the typical user=2E > >I speak from experience here=2E org mode binds some arrow key >combinations=2E Two of these, C-S- and C-S- which do some mino= r >thing in org mode are bindings I use to scroll the current window >down/up 6 lines=2E So, when somebody changed NEWS from outline mode to >org mode some while ago, my finger memory stopped working=2E I never got >around to disabling these bindings in org mode - it was just too much >work=2E That's getting into spacebar heating territory=2E It's two lines of code= =2E We shouldn't inconvenience every user everywhere just to save some theo= retical person time rebinding keys=2E Also, because we're talking about the= global keymap, not a minor mode one, users don't have to do anything speci= al to override our keybindings with theirs --- define-key will Just Work=2E= Again, you're presenting a general purpose argument against the whole conc= ept of defaults=2E=20