From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Preview: portable dumper Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 12:22:03 -0800 Message-ID: <727ccd66-3bc3-2a41-7d1d-ef6dae9f0d1e@dancol.org> References: <047a67ec-9e29-7e4e-0fb0-24c3e59b5886@dancol.org> <83zikjxt1j.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1480364597 16139 195.159.176.226 (28 Nov 2016 20:23:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 20:23:17 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 To: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 28 21:23:04 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cBSS4-0002EX-9X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 21:23:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32885 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBSS7-0000sM-UT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 15:23:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42325) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBSRJ-0000qH-9R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 15:22:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBSRE-0003eD-Ee for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 15:22:13 -0500 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3]:37752) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBSRE-0003dr-7n; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 15:22:08 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject; bh=0Lxf54pGJKRiPQ9+okMv3DVXQ6Y1WwQZCAE20YPysxg=; b=R04dfAVprEJso4bZFOUIhbiPQ6nhJZ6xIXsipdx+KY4nA2fg3KVEtCdEQESYmCCJcaWidtZsehiha2dvmm6O5+9igQmNZHCdAj+XBuWK8AIosvoE1RT03VAu9NBuTUVgTT7AHkaDZEVgEdVr7zLpdSSj7SOWz3nwQppfJDBI06O9p+WUOf2Hgk+O4nHXS/Hozbr8WFuA7NwILvomqpN7yYCCk0pHqvPgBQ+eqefnA1+gFuXHqAWWKhLOypZoEyFpe/c9EavLR9l0UYgK5R2xzDmodHr4Z8aQobze0b1CQx2OXhcE9YZE9UUVYgaJKpHdRqD7nc8DCWwlhc68xHx00g==; Original-Received: from c-73-140-245-253.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([73.140.245.253] helo=[192.168.1.173]) by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cBSRD-0008FC-Ft; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 12:22:07 -0800 In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:209689 Archived-At: On 11/28/2016 12:20 PM, John Wiegley wrote: >>>>>> "EZ" == Eli Zaretskii writes: > > EZ> Thanks for your efforts, but I think this is a wrong direction, that will > EZ> eventually get us into the same problem we have with unexec: the need to > EZ> know and depend on intimate details of relocations, memory allocation, > EZ> etc. On top of that, adding Lisp objects will now require writing its > EZ> dumper back-end, so this will be a constant maintenance burden of the kind > EZ> that only a few of us can bear. > > Is there a way to get away from such a requirement, Eli? If unexec becomes > untenable in the future, is there an alternative that doesn't place the burden > upon us to encode the right amount of information in the dumped file? > > If I understand Daniel's contribution, he's proposing the equivalent of a > program loader for Emacs Lisp byte-code, stored within what amounts to a > custom object file format. Yes --- one that *we* control, which frees us from changes to underlying systems. Yes, the thing has intimate knowledge of Lisp_Object internals, but whoever changes those internals (and these changes are rare) can change the dumper too.