From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Improved welcome screen Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:49:33 +0300 Message-ID: <720fcfde-6b10-8960-8755-e61700adcebf@yandex.ru> References: <863691n4xl.wl-me@enzu.ru> <86blno9yle.wl-me@enzu.ru> <87d0845msg.fsf@yahoo.com> <87h7xgjasw.fsf@yahoo.com> <875zdwjais.fsf@yahoo.com> <6a198677-41b6-4dbd-39d0-2b01550d53cf@yandex.ru> <875zdv9jf3.fsf@yahoo.com> <7AE22CF7-3A15-4F99-976F-970EF0C2F40F@traduction-libre.org> <2dfe6814-684c-eecc-0cea-9e373ce5c136@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="53463"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: Jean-Christophe Helary , Emacs developers To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 28 04:50:27 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGKI-000Dnn-Dn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 04:50:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40120 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGKH-0002cw-Bz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:50:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44028) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGJX-0001Gw-Fk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:49:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGJW-0003a2-Gb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:49:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x434.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::434]:34679) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGJW-0003ZY-0z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:49:38 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x434.google.com with SMTP id j1so22853141wrt.1 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:49:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=EvCBmpo4lwQpfOePDiU50ag8LcEWG4FRVN9MB8t5b4A=; b=K5ayqRPEYebY1XWZnZIAAqeBjoPSwRcWSClASe/ao45a89YQKd59y8Qw5BVSwiKBoe xXLiNTbPOG1O4oiNFpXf7payi10zWe6dFve7vjhNhj3jBFtQHVkeU7S/u9TVOMlOZRPV 6u7tIDiUustjVELpJiHwm7lBBy04SGBXhgRq4B+VyDnjbecb0rDZl5ZMk6SGKwY0gf2d jFWOdnUQNx8YzodVp/X2YIiG8IEw8jYLJLHBXPpnOgGtta89KSJ8rBR2Z3lkcZ0WSS7Z QCQCWROY5wThssaAHAFRVx8mbR71xVaAok6qu4ZhrxGlpWUK9faIaKWgVtoZQhynNtta j+LQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=EvCBmpo4lwQpfOePDiU50ag8LcEWG4FRVN9MB8t5b4A=; b=nx0uGbsgYihJz42z5D1Eh0DwVy1D5V2AZG4ZaJNP6J6Bvo+owzvrAmXKHGC4+GRoBn 2xsglb7AtFB9oowE5FpUXw+tbT5dYWcEcuCEAhshDacqIqHbu30tjBoFJSoZie3sqFA7 btPSv2G2zrP90o4Xhl8JyNr2aiZvPwGHzx212JLhvioL7jq14+wMzWv1hoeTx+30I5NO tLYLI9pAjLvvY4Vlmz32fdGH4L1HfgYMC7ZA59gcHAM2FRySOElzadsJjCW4gqlsg4bN 8+1LSDVsRdPp3ajOeUVLWP21/hL9X3MX3OFbnswlOY1vMp3Ip1ctD8aPDgJx6lqKqIg5 6/aA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuatCIU69huN+mrJtPU+51w1tomZYAs5cX2+if41XqVc+otHlFSM i/v/an0Nroe4F9xCiKibrq4kFdsB35s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKynGsGT6BagZORPJv0rNjiwPymn93UdY/L5ATOIy2fi/zkCWpkx16i3qVKsSxUQT8f/ajW2w== X-Received: by 2002:adf:8b8e:: with SMTP id o14mr32902407wra.392.1588042175659; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 17sm1356961wmo.2.2020.04.27.19.49.34 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:49:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::434; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x434.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::434 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247983 Archived-At: On 27.04.2020 22:07, Stefan Kangas wrote: > Dmitry Gutov writes: > >> I like this direction quite a bit. Not crazy about the part after the >> dashed line, though, but it's less clear what we can replace it with. > > Thank you, this is good feedback. For this first draft, I tried to > include all information that was there before. But I'm personally > happy to incorporate further changes along the lines you suggest. > > As for the version information, we could just mention the major and > minor version in the first sentence: "This is GNU Emacs version > 28.0.50, [...]" I don't have a particular preference. This string could be useful (I don't know). But the way it's displayed, and its length, leave something to be desired. > Or we could decide that the version information is not really needed > at all for the purposes of this screen. I don't have a very strong > opinion here except that I don't think it's ideal to advertise details > like the cairo version at the very top of the screen (as before). Indeed, maybe not. >> The "NO WARRANTY" can probably just live in the Help menu. Or move to >> the middle. Maybe by replacing the "Ordering Manuals" item which could >> obtain more prominence in "(emacs) Top". Or by having a fourth item >> there. Maybe we can have 4 items in each column. > > I thought there was some kind of legal reason that "NO WARRANTY" is on > that screen? If it's not, we might as well move it out of the way, I > agree. Maybe Richard has an opinion on this, but (though IANAL) I don't think so, considering most software (libre or not) don't make this much of an effort to tell the user about the lack of warranty. > The "Ordering Manuals" could indeed get more prominence in "(emacs) > Top" instead. > > We could have four items in each column, if necessary. Somehow humans > like it when there are only three things though - it's a general > principle in graphical design. It "feels" better to most people for > some unknown reason. Content obviously trumps that, but I propose we > also keep that (secondary) aspect in mind. If the "no warranty" thing is required there after all, we could do the four-row thing as the first improved version, get it installed, and then discuss further tweaks. Because I'm guessing hiding the "Ordering Manuals" farther from sight can be seen as unfortunate (however much income it results in, IDK). >> Speaking of the Guided Tour, EWW is nifty and all, but it renders that >> page worse than any normal browser. > > Indeed. I filed a feature request for a new max width option: > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=40909 Thanks. > The images are also rendered to be very small, so maybe it would be > good to file a feature request for that. Personally, I'd prefer if it just used the web browser installed in the system. But I'll take any improvement over the current state.