From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eli Zaretskii" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Default Emacs keybindings (was: Re: Menu suggestion) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:03:00 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <7137-Tue27Apr2004150259+0300-eliz@gnu.org> References: <408CF39D.2000201@math.ku.dk> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1083072754 23541 80.91.224.253 (27 Apr 2004 13:32:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:32:34 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 27 15:32:14 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BISh2-0004k6-00 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:32:12 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BISh2-0006iE-00 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:32:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BIRKE-0006ix-KW for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:04:34 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BIRJr-0006i3-Ds for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:04:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BIRJK-0006bw-Io for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:04:10 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.114.186.23] (helo=aragorn.inter.net.il) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BIRJJ-0006Z6-1b; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:03:37 -0400 Original-Received: from zaretski ([80.230.156.196]) by aragorn.inter.net.il (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id CTR65282; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:03:19 +0300 (IDT) Original-To: David Kastrup X-Mailer: emacs 21.3.50 (via feedmail 8 I) and Blat ver 1.8.9 In-reply-to: (message from David Kastrup on 27 Apr 2004 11:54:51 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:22238 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:22238 > From: David Kastrup > Date: 27 Apr 2004 11:54:51 +0200 > > So I have a vested interest in moving Emacs to a state where one can > throw it at a newbie without preconfiguration and can hope for a > tolerable balance of achieved tasks and incited frustration even on > early parts of the learning curve. I'm with you on this one, but this goal cannot be really translated into practical tasks before we agree on what we want the newbie to be able to accomplish without spending a weekend learning Emacs. For example, the basic editing tasks---cursor motion, text insertion and deletion, and visiting and saving files---support the standard keys and menu-bar items that every newbie should be able top find easily, even without reading the docs.